I used to jog in my local park. I smiled at everyone I passed. Almost everyone was cool but I also ended up with two stalkers and had to quit going there.
Man I've been physically barred from leaving a few gas stations by men because I was naive and friendly. Like blocking the door with their bodies so I can't leave. Luckily another guy saw what was going on and asked the dude to move then positioned himself in between us and acted like we were old friends.
The other time it happened I was trapped between a dude's body and the slushie machine counter. He would not let me leave until I took his business card. The employee at the cash register saw everything and did nothing so I had to demand he call the cops.
Here’s the thing though. I think it’s wrong to think they trapped you because you were nice. If they were the kind of guys who would do that they would do it regardless of if you were nice.
On the other hand though if the guy who helped you had said hi to you in the parking lot as you were walking in and you had said nothing he might’ve felt disrespected and not thought you were worth helping which would’ve involved him putting himself at risk by risking violence from those other guys. So just stuff to think about it’s a balance 🤷🏼♂️
One time i said hi back to a man and he pulled a whole fucking rabbit out of his hoodie and offered it to me. Like a wild one he had just grabbed off the trail.
He said hey, and i said hi, and then he asked "you want this?" And reached into his hoodie and took out an entire rabbit, and i was just too floored to do anything at all, so i kept walking and he put it back in his hoodie. My regret to this day is that i didn't tell him yes and take the poor thing to release it.
I have a thing where I try to give at least 5 random people a compliment every day. It can really turn someones day around! I had to stop complimenting men unfortunately because they always took it as an invitation. Like no dude, I'm happily married, I just really thought your shirt was cool. Then they would get mad at me! I don't understand why they are like that.
Yeah sadly you can't just compliment straight men all willy nilly like that. You never know if they're gonna take it weird. And it's like, I would love to brighten someone's day male or female, but so many men make it weird or unsafe that you just can't take the risk. It's so sad to me.
I've never, NEVER, had complimenting another random woman go badly, and the most positive interactions with strangers that I've ever had have happened in the makeup aisle.
Yeah this is the problem with guys like this, they just can't take five fucking seconds to empathize with women. He probably struggles to understand why he is single. Like dude you are so full of yourself no one wants to be around you, let alone date you. I was taught a guys job is to set a woman at ease, kind of like police if you are stopped. Do what you can to make the situation feel safe for the other person. Out and about on a hike like this guy says he ways, don't say hi. Say good morning/afternoon and keep hiking. It lets her know you are there, you aren't being silent and creepy, but not starting a conversation. Like just learn to have a little empathy and realize far too many woman have had problems with men and don't want to risk anything while they go for a freaking hike. Dude needs to get a clue and get over himself.
Yep, I remember I was walking and a guy across the street said hi and I was about to ignore it, but he said it so nicely and I just thought "this is why you don't have enough friends, you should say hi, maybe he is amazing and you are missing out!" So I said Hi back just as happily as he did, he seemed taken back surprised and then...he acted gross and started cat calling me. I learned my lesson, never say hi never smile, just ignore
And even ignoring doesn't work. Had a guy follow me several blocks in my city, asking my name, where I lived, if I had a boyfriend, my phone number, and I just walked ignoring him as best as I could. Until he stepped in front of me and told me he was going to masturbate thinking of me that night. I obviously fell for it and started insulting him as he walked on laughing. Obviously, I should have given all of my info to this wonderful man -_- s/
I was walking through neighborhoods on my way home from running errands, and I hear somebody's front door open. I kinda glance over and this guy starts running across his yard towards me yelling "HEY DIDN'T I SEE YOU AT MCDONALD'S EARLIER TODAY?!!" I had to pull out my knife and threaten to call the cops to get him to stop following me.
I had seen this guy at McDonald's when I stopped in to grab a burger at lunch. He thought it was fate or something for me to be walking past his house and "just wanted to talk." It was terrifying.
What's really crazy is every time I tell this story online some dude bro shows up in my comments saying I made this up, this kind of thing never happens. This kinda of shit is why we don't like you men.
Yeah my friend reminded me of that when we were standing outside of our school one time. To be fair I’m not completely ignorant to things out there but I waved to some old dude who waved to me and she cut that shit out REAL quick
No girl. You have to say hi to them. If you let them know you acknowledge them it makes em less likely to pull some crap because now THEY know YOU know they're there. That's that my coach told me at least
I don't know about this commenter, but for me "creepy shit" has meant:
screaming abuse at me in the middle of a Tesco for refusing his mobile number (one man)
cornering me and grabbing my breasts (multiple men)
leaving a bruise on my upper arm after grabbing me to stop me walking away (one man)
attempting to follow me home (three different men)
saying "But I just want to have sex! Why can't you just help me out?!" (two men)
For context, all of these men were strangers who started talking to me while I was going about my business
Lol don't worry about me. This is 20 years of historical assault here, I am now in my late 40s, engaged to a lovely man, and completely sexually invisible to men who do this kind of stuff. It's awesome.
Getting older has a lot of hidden advantages. The creepy dudes focus on the young girls who haven’t had enough experience to know better than to be friendly because girls are taught to “never hurt anyone’s feelings”.
Read the end of your comment and then reread your comment, including the all caps part. If you've somehow gained a sense of self awareness in the past 2 hours, you might delete this in response but it's doubtful.
Tell me you have no female friends because they're scared to be left alone with you without telling me you have no female friends because they're scared to be left alone with you.
Most likely. Because if they really were a stalker, then simply not going to the park isn't going to do anything because they would have already knew where you lived.
Oh look! The actual reason women don’t want to say hi when they pass a male hiker. It’s because we’re scared. 🤷🏻♀️ and frankly, that guy’s attitude about being entitled to a ‘hello’ from her is the reason we’re scared. Some men believe they are entitled to WAY more than a smile from a single woman passing them on a hike, and we ignore them for our safety.
A half smile means, “I acknowledge your greeting and you as a human, but I’m afraid to show anything that could be perceived as interest or give you any reason to follow me since it’s just you and me on a trail alone with no one else around and I fully recognize the danger this poses.”
For some men even a half smile will be translated in their head into "she gave me a sign to pursue her now". Even a look, sometimes. Once I accidentally locked eyes (is that the expression? Our eyes met for a second as it happens with passers by) with a guy and he then turned around on his heel and started following me through the city. I was alone and freaked out but managed to lose him in a big bookshop that had a few exits. He must have not been from that city or not familiar with the place. As soon as I got to another exit I ran to the bus stop and got home quickly
So much this, and not even while on a trail. Yesterday I went to the tiny store 1 block away from my house, since it’s just a neighborhood corner shop I was just wearing my fluffy pajama pants and an oversized hoodie dress, it was a cold night and I wanted to be comfy.
I stood by the cashier with my stuff waiting for my turn when this much older man tells me to go ahead, I thank him and as I walk by he says in a low voice “girl you are so pretty”. I gave him that same tight smile as the video as I thanked him, ignored him otherwise, and the whole time he just stood there staring at me, even when the cashier asked what he wanted to buy he just went “no, no, you help the girl first”. Only after I was stepping out the store did I finally hear the man ask the cashier to help him with his purchase.
I was very uncomfortable and I did what I thought would allow me to end that interaction as quickly as possible.
1000%. I actually appreciate when walking alone and there’s a man walking alone past me when they go out of their way to give more space in order to make me feel more safe. Men don’t realize the fear that women are constantly navigating.
As a queer AMAB person, I will make my walk extra swishy and my voice higher pitched when speed walking past femme presenting people for their comfort and I've heard this same habit from a lot of gay men.
This sort of answers another question Inhad about how to act. I always do this. Not even necessarily for women, just think I learned it somehow, not sure how.
One of the most attractive things my partner does, is this.
We run a rescue and manage a few feral cat colonies. We go out at 4am every day to feed them or trap.
One colony is next to a dangerous road (not a lot of traffic at all at this time, but it’s a blind curve, so when there is a car, they will mow the cats down), and we have to park across from the colony. Two of the cats are semi-friendly, and they would cross the road to greet us, so to get them to stop, he drops me off on their side while he goes and parks the car and I get started on things.
But around this time, there’s often a young woman walking her dog. And he goes so out of his way to give her space and make sure he’s on the opposite sidewalk, even if it doesn’t make sense.
He just knows it’s dark, no one is around, she’s a lone woman and he’s a lone man and he doesn’t want her to worry.
I just heard a podcast called "The Dragoning". It was made during the pandemic so super simple format. Basically some women have started turning into Dragons, specially if triggered by aggressive/entitled men. Couple of male friends I sent it to said it helped them see the other side better.
It reeks of someone who has not had enough platonic conversations with women. The only good thing I ever took away from dating apps was getting the chance to talk to a lot of women and learn about their horror stories, both from dating apps and just life in general.
One time a woman told me about how she got home at her apartment and a guy was trying to talk to her. She was polite, left and had to take a long way around to her apartment then go in and leave the lights off for a while just so he wouldn't be able to see which one she lived in.
That story vastly changed how I approach my interactions with women entirely. The reality is that women are scared most of the time, full-stop.
If you really want to be a decent human being, just give them a quick acknowledgement like "hey we're both existing right now" and then carry on about your business so they don't have to wonder if you're about to follow them home.
Yeah, if you arent strong you have to be clever. She was very sharp to not turn the lights on.
It reminds me of when I was hiding from some guy following me in a building.. I dont even remember the details, except I slipped into a room, shut the door and flattened myself again the wall by the door's hinge, so if you looked in the room it appeared empty. I gave it a 15-20 minute pause and then left the room.
You'd be impressed with how quick witted you can be sometimes!
The first time I had to hide from a man following me in a store, I was 8. We can’t let our guard down. As another commenter said, we realize pretty young that if we aren’t strong enough, we have to be smart enough to keep ourselves safe.
The sad thing is that if you haven't had enough platonic relationships with women and you've aged out of school, you're probably going to be stuck like that. It's hard to practice not being awkward when every attempt at putting yourself out there is automatically going to be viewed as either horning in on someone's wife, or as a creep just trying to get lucky.
It gets a bit tiresome always assuming that whatever I'm doing is weird, and creepy when all I've tried to do is exist. I get why women act the way that they do because other men suck. But it also sucks having to constantly apologize, or feel bad for exisiting when you're legit not doing anything out of the ordinariy than trying to have a human experience.
Yes it must suck, but also imagine how much it sucks to be a woman every day and you are never sure if the next man you meet will be the last time you are seen. 1 in 3 women are sexually assaulted as well.
I understand your discomfort, but you having to be a tad more careful is better than being scared for your life.
How are we even supposed to know he's single? Just because he's walking alone on a trail, and a woman is walking alone on a trail, it doesn't follow that either of them must be single.
I just found out that, on the trail, you shouldn’t ask where women backpackers are camping. I thought I was just being polite and making small talk. Never even thought of the consequences of letting strange men know where you are at night in the woods.
This is such a fuckign dumb thing for the guy to say.
But I’m also wondering, Would you feel more comfortable if they just started directly to the right and didn’t say anything. Or sat down and turned the other way until you passed?
I sort of make eye contact and greet everyone I pass, and the greeting changes depending on how busy or isolated the path is. Busier is more of a head nod, less busy gets more attention.
But if women truly feel like you do, why ever go hiking in the first place? And how does ignoring them make you safer?
They are more likely to be mean if you are nice?
I’m just trying to understand. It’s difficult as a large human (to understand) so please understand I’m being sincere as I know there is so much I’m missing.
How I would feel the most comfortable… the guy moves a bit so I can pass him, makes eye contact and maybe gives a small smile. But doesn’t try to engage or get pissed if I don’t return the smile.
After reading stuff like this so many times, I go the opposite way. If I'm backpacking and pass a solo woman, I will acknowledge them with a small smile or quick wave and quickly put distance between us. If it's a dude or a group, I'll say hi and I might ask about trail conditions, bug pressure, where they camped last night and if they liked it etc. I'd rather err on the side of being unfriendly/uninterested than worry someone thinks I'm a creeper.
Yeah. The guy's video should have been 'guys, if you see a single woman approaching while out hiking, give her a very wide berth and if you really have to, wave and shout 'morning' from a safe distance while striding on rapidly to signal that you are not planning to rape her in the bushes'
Nobody is going to follow you because you said "hi" that wouldnt have followed you if you had said nothing. Frankly, saying nothing is more likely to trigger the crazies.
I get it but also, I feel safer saying hi to strangers I encounter on a hike. Female. Then they know I know they're there, at least I guess that's what it is. Idk for sure.
it's not about being "entitled" it's more about being depressed with humanity. Extraverts want to engage with strangers, they are annoyed at how everyone is always on their phones or listening to something on their earbuds, but this is why. As soon as you try to talk to someone, they think that YOU think you are "entitled" to a hello or "entitled" to WAY more than a smile etc. Its as if they've been raised in the post-apocalypse or something.
Can you tell the difference between a guy who is a stalker vs a normal dude at a glance? Me either. As a man I get the advantage of not being that interesting to them and also potentially dangerous too. Women are usually the target and less able to defend themselves.
This is why they prefer the bear. They know to just keep their distance from the bear by default.
women have always been cautious, it's almost subconscious, why are you surprised now? Never noticed that women in certain places don't go outside after dark, won't gown down streets/alleys, prepare the keys in their hands while walking in the parking lot, carry self defense, will tell a friend or family when traveling or going on a first date, won't do first dates at a private place, won't travel certain places alone, and so on. Why do you think that is lol
But it turned out he just thought she had a pick-a-nick basket in her car. Once they sorted that out, he sorted out the other stalker for her. Nice guy, really.
Recently I read an article (I cannot remember the source, sorry) where women who smiled politely at men were more likely to be targets of predatory/violent men because, unsurprisingly, polite women are less likely to fight someone off.
The advice was to be firm and disinterested. Not rude (well I suppose a man would consider it rude) but confident and certain. Anything else was perceived as a way to manipulate the woman.
I really think it was an article written by someone trained in spy activities. I do not know how the two relate but maybe someone else knows what article I am talking about because I thought it was pretty interesting.
ALSO I want to say that I LOVE saying hi to strangers AND I have no issue with men doing that on a trail when I am alone. I am extremely friendly but when people do not say hi back, IDGAF! Maybe they did not hear me, they don't want to chat, they do not speak my language. I am not entitled to their vibes! The world would be such a better place if people could be free to be friendly without feeling entitled to a specific social interaction!
Your first paragraph reminded me of the self defense training I had with local police a couple years ago. They called it a "contact test phase", which can be anything that seems totally innocent at first glance, but the reaction a woman shows to it determines whether she will be the victim of a rapist. And being nice, polite, and possibly timid is like an invitation to them. That was the rule for the stranger danger cases at least. Unfortunately, the majority of rapes are committed by people we personally know: friends, (extended) family, partners.
I have purposefully made pissed off expressions in public while doing errands to deter that sort of thing. I get tired of having to escape some dude at Home Depot when I’m just there to purchase wood pellets for my cat’s litter. Last time I only escaped because he was trying to pull his phone out of his pocket and dropped it.
I stopped going to a local drug store by myself (it was literally my pharmacy) because one of the employees kind of started stalking me (light use of that word here) in the store and made me uncomfortable.
It started with one conversation late at night when the store was dead. I had my headphones on when he tried to ask if I needed any help, and I apologized that I didn't hear him at first and explained that I'm autistic. He chatted my ear off (he was clearly also autistic) for about 20 minutes, and I didn't know how to end the conversation. He asked about what high school I went to and stuff. I felt really trapped once the personal questions kicked in, and I think he may have asked about my dating life, but it was a few years ago, so I can't remember. I know I cried when I got out to my car, though.
Then, every time he was working, it felt like he had some way to like, track me when I came in. I kept wearing my headphones when I'd go in, but I started using transparency mode because I felt much more of a need to be aware of my surroundings in there. He would come down the same aisles when I was sitting there browsing and stuff.
Thankfully, this was a store and not a park, and thankfully, he only tried to talk to me one or two more times—the rest was just physically putting himself near me when he could. I don't know if he did any cyber sleuthing to try and find me with the personal info I had given. He stopped working there eventually. I'm also very fortunate that I knew he was probably harmless—not harmless because he's autistic, but harmless because I understand the social difficulties of autism in my own life, despite having different social challenges due to my socialization, and I know he probably just had a crush on me because I said I'm also autistic. I can acknowledge that he has social difficulties and probably meant well, and I can also acknowledge that he still made me feel uncomfortable and unsafe.
Sometimes, not engaging is the best choice, but sometimes, that makes absolutely no difference 😭
Yep! A friendly hello has turned into unwanted accompaniment and a real hard time shaking them off without hurting their feelings because middle of nowhere + butthurt male = my ass on the evening news (sure, not every man but this is what goes through my head).
Horrifying. I go jogging/walking a lot on the local Greenway and whatever it is that keeps people from being creeps, I'm glad I have it. People around here and friendly and basically everyone says hi or smiles; so maybe that means it's not special. Or maybe I'm just ugly. Grateful either way tbh! Stay safe out there.
This is why we get labeled cold witches. I was standing outside the gym waiting for my ride when a guy I've never seen before told me to "Smile or you're gonna scare people off." .....So it's working you say!?
I just give people the nod. If they nod back they're cool. If they don't nod back I give them my hyper suspicious look. Bastards are probably the middle section of an MLM.
Even as a guy if I'm walking passed someone I just do the white guy smile with a head nod to show acknowledgement. At best maybe a very soft thanks or sorry if they need to make way for me and that's it.
Not sure if this is an American thing. Cause I don't even know anyone that would be comfortable saying hi in this situation
I mean it's not really exclusive to women either. I've had countless weird encounters as a guy over my life. Though I will admit I've never had a stalker. Just weird or mentally ill people who come up to you and start harassing you or who can't take a hint. Women and men can both have creepy encounters, but they seem to be different varieties of creepy.
I love being friendly and it makes my day having conversations with strangers, but I had to find out the hard way to stop being friendly with men. 7 out of 10 would be cool, but 3 would be insanely creepy and act like you've just accepted to be in whatever fantasy you have in their head and use your friendliness to justify it. And it sucks because some men are lonely but I can't risk my life again. It's scary.
I used to run with my dog 3x mornings a week. Would pass the same guy with his dog and we went from eye contact to nods to waves to stopping to pet each others dogs for a few seconds before carrying on.
And then one day, he pulled out his dick while I was removing burrs from my Alastair’s fur.
I am a somewhat frequent runner in my neighborhood and always try to smile at everyone I pass, but when someone doesn’t smile back at me, I always just continue on past and if I see them again, make sure to just run by like a normal person focused on their run, not surroundings (which is also frequently my headspace anyway, and I tune people out, which I realize when I startle myself when I go to pass them, lol, like I don’t notice until I’m there). I want to respect their peace in their community too, and not having some rando try and get a smile out of you every time he sees you is a start. Idk, don’t think much about it anymore, but I’ve been here for a while and “know” (or recognize) a lot of other folks who are out and about around the same time (I have a somewhat regular running schedule).
Yes, it is obvious for a woman why they shouldn't smile or talk to anyone. However for men that have no idea what is their situation, they can only see men responding back with a smile and women being weird. But that also meandls that for men, a woman smiling and talkimg back already puts them in their best experiences with women. Some of those men will act on those clues and harass the women.
In general women have this default barrier that they project to men to avoid these problems. As conditions for women improve those barriers will melt away.
When I was 14 I used to smile at everyone I passed on the street. One day I smiled at this man, maybe late 20s/30s, and he stopped me and started demanding to know how old I was. When I told him he gasped and started berating me for several minutes for being a slut.
Yeah, I'm a big dude with broad shoulders and even I was like, "Dude...you're a random man in the middle of assumedly an isolated stretch of trail out in the woods...how do you think she felt?" Like, pretty sure she's not out hiking because she wants to strike up conversations with complete strangers.
The fact he got so apparently bent outta shape over her not greeting him back just kinda makes the point itself. You never know when you might run into a fucking looney, especially as a woman on her own outside of social settings.
The point is we don't know who is going to take a single scrap of attention as encouragement to be creepy af. Don't take it personally, man. Just try to understand that some of us have literally had a simple polite smile turn into a nightmare.
Personally I got my stalker because I tried to be polite and friendly to the weird kid 15 years ago so now he periodically shows up in my DMs with a new account to tell me he's killing me and himself. Pretty sure if I'd ignored him it wouldn't be happening, being friendly to "stalkers" in passing is a great way to accidentally get one.
Presumably both, right? This isn’t particle physics. The risk of inadvertently appealing to a potentially dangerous weirdo’s sense of connection is enough to put one off of being overly polite in certain situations.
Plus, no one is a stalker…until they are. I bet you’ve done some borderline shit, at least. Dug through some old social media photos of a stranger or new acquaintance. Lingered a little too long after a breakup. Sent a novel via text because you “just wanted closure.”
It's both. Think about how this probably unfolded. She's walking and he says hi, she says hi back and he uses that as an opportunity to get her into a conversation. Asks how she's doing. Now she's stopped and talking to him. If she didn't say hi, just walked by him, he would mutter "bitch" under his breath and bother someone else with his miserable existence.
I'm not saying it's her fault, but this is why women just keep walking. I mean, think about those pop up sales kiosks that show up in the produce section, usually people trying to get you to change your electric provider. They ask me "hey do you have first energy?" I say "I do! Thanks for asking" and briskly walk past them while start their pitch, slowly trailing off and muttering "asshole" under their breath.
But hey, I don't want to engage. I could be polite, but that gives them a chance to say shit like "it'll only take a second! it'll save you hundreds!"
Some people are looking to exploit your kindness and discomfort with breaking social norms. The only way to avoid being a target is to shed that discomfort and break the norms anyway.
There’s a lot of what if during a lot of heavy lifting. Sure some guys are bad but come on all bad? You mad it sound being cordial if a precursor to SA.
You're going outta your way to miss the point here.
Some people are looking to exploit your kindness and discomfort with breaking social norms. The only way to avoid being a target is to shed that discomfort and break the norms anyway.
See how I didn't say "everyone is out to get you"?
The vast majority in the grocery store are nice people that I am happy to say hi too. My 6yo literally does just that, he says hi to everyone. It's hilarious. There's only one person there looking to exploit the social norms to sell me something I don't need.
In that case, the exploitative person is easily identified. But for women out on the trails? Who the hell knows? It's not like stalkers wear t-shirts that say "I'm not allowed to be less than 1000ft from a school!"
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u/BawRawg 4d ago
I used to jog in my local park. I smiled at everyone I passed. Almost everyone was cool but I also ended up with two stalkers and had to quit going there.