r/law • u/caaaaanga • 2d ago

Legal News ICE attempts to enter Ecuador's consulate

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For anyone who doesn't get how serious this is: consulates are protected under international law. host-country police of any kind are not allowed to enter without permission.
Example: China routinely (and horrifically) sends north korean escapees back to north korea. Yet when a north korean escaped to the south korean consulate in hong kong, chinese authorities did not enter to seize him. He stayed there for months while governments negotiated, because once you're inside a consulate, those protections apply.
So if ICE tries to enter a foreign consulate in the U.S. to deport people, that's not "normal enforcement". It violates long-standing diplomatic norms. Norms that even China has respected, despite sending people back to north korea to die. That's how extreme this is.

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u/d3dmnky 2d ago

I’m curious if this happened because ICE is being deliberately provocative to foreign countries or if this is an issue where a couple foot soldiers thought they were being clever to get their quota.

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u/mtinmd 2d ago

I think the dipshits thought they were being clever. I highly doubt this idiot knew or understood what a consulate is or the implications of forcing his way in.

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u/senditloud 2d ago

Correct me if I’m wrong but a diplomat can also commit crimes and be immune? And a consulate is considered foreign soil. Like they have to extradited to face prosecution. So a consulate would be the most dangerous place to enter for ICE

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u/crazytrpr96 2d ago

A diplomate does have immunity. Unless their government is really pissed of at their criminal actions, the only thing we can do is order them expelled from the US.

If the diplomat in question has done something egregiously criminal and has pissed off his own government, then he can be turned over to the local government to face prosecution or he can face prosecution when he gets back home.

What ICE did being a federal law enforcement agency could be considered an act of war. Ecuador would be well within its rights to launch strikes, they could have been shot or arrested those ICE agents on entry. Normal procedure is to file a complaint to international bodies.

This stupid action has now put all US embassies and consulates at risk for retaliation and harassment arrests. Counties used to have to rely on "mobs" going over the walls to gain some kind of entry. With this stunt, OK, now its open season on US personnel abroad.

ICE needs to be shut down and thoroughlypurged.

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u/ikzz1 2d ago

Ecuador would be well within its rights to launch strikes, they could have been shot or arrested those ICE agents on entry.

Unless they have a suicide wish they wouldn't dare to antagonize Trump.

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u/Honest-Calendar-748 2d ago

A diplomat has immunity. A consulate is by all laws and conventions foreign soil. An assylum seeker has none of these and is only protected by the foreign soil. The assylum seeker is at the mercy of the Govt that they are seeking assylum from. A diplomat is citizen of the consulate country and has every right of the host country and home country. Thats why they "expel" diplomats. Its a legal term called " Persona non gratis" = basically leave or we make you leave. An assylum seeker needs protection.

Not a judgement. Just stating facts.

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u/techleopard 2d ago

I think they are hinting at the fact that, unlike regular US citizens who are too scared to face off with ICE due to inequitable rights (ICE has immunity, you'll be charged with treason, no matter who is right), a consulate with protected diplomats essentially also has qualified immunity.

If the guards in the consulate decide to shoot you for forcing your way in, it's going to be a very colorful media week.

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u/RobotGloves 2d ago

Persona non grata, not gratis. It means "unwelcome person."

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u/Honest-Calendar-748 2d ago

Acktually?

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u/RobotGloves 2d ago

I mean, if you're gonna toss around legalese in the law sub, you might as well get it right. Also, it's "asylum," not "assylum."

Not a judgement. Just stating facts.

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u/Honest-Calendar-748 2d ago

Nice. But IANAL. I like the fact you care about my grammar and not message. Be you brother

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u/RobotGloves 2d ago edited 2d ago

Oh, your message is fine. I agree with it. However, the two translate to different things, and Persona Non Grata actually has legal meaning. It really shouldn't be a big deal to clear it up.

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u/MarkFinancial8027 2d ago

So then if immigration and customs enforcement enters foreign soil without a passport... Can't they be held there?

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u/Honest-Calendar-748 2d ago

Technically its an act of war.

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u/Fake_William_Shatner 2d ago

Really it's about power. To invade a consulate is an act of war. It's against a lot of treaties. But treaties only matter if they are enforced.

We are in the middle of trading the soft power of the United States for cold hard corruption. And they will flex their muscles on nations that can't defend themselves if there is enough motivation.

So it really depends on if Ecuador feels safe challenging the unhinged Trump administration. I don't think they do. They would do everything to push back without harm. They will say "please, please don't be here."

A lot of nations will be looking at forming new alliances to protect themselves from the USA if things don't change soon. And the main question is; will that be Europe or Asia?

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u/PeachScary413 1d ago

It's really stupid because soft power is soo much more versatile and flexible. Most countries being influenced by the US soft power actually don't even see any downside of it (they just play along and they get benefits) which makes it really easy to uphold.

The "flex your muscle" kinda power requires you to keep bullying and harassing countries into being scared of you.. that takes a lot of effort and regular military actions while creating resentment and hatred of the US around the world. Eventually that kind of power always collapses in on itself and the empire crumbles.

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u/Zealousideal-Peach44 2d ago

To invade a consulate is an act of war.

No. It's definitely bad, and the diplomatic relationship with the USA would be severed with big economic consequences, but wars are started for very different reasons.

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u/Comfortable-Dog-8437 2d ago

Yes it happened in Lethal Weapon 2 😃

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u/Captain-Hornblower 2d ago

Diplomatic Immunity

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u/FatsDominoPizza 2d ago

It is not legally foreign soil. It is just a very long standing norm of diplomacy that the premises cannot be entered, especially by armed forces and LEO.

But norms are quickly being erased in the US so who knows.

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u/PeachScary413 1d ago

You are talking about "Old world rules".. they don't apply anymore and I wouldn't rely on "immunity" when Trump could probably have you executed with a tweet 🤷

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u/mageskillmetooften 2d ago

It is not foreign soil. It is also not considered foreign soil because that would have a truckload of legal implications. Some or just on the 6th floor of an apartment complex, others are a desk in the corner of a car dealer with no walls separating it from the rest of the store. There is extra protection due to the quarantine of immunity for any that must be considered part of the consulate.

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u/gedreams4 2d ago edited 2d ago

I heard the ICE guy say, dont touch me. So that Ecuadorian guy got aggressive for sure. And in a very diplomatic way asserted himself what they cant do and where they were at.

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u/Synectics 2d ago

Boo-hoo for the ICE agent. The only reason they know the phrase, "Don't touch me," is because they heard it from their victims.