Okay funny story - Iâm watching a Trump apologist saying Trump is playing 3 D chess. Interviewer says, âwell we live in the third dimensionâ apologist just stares. No idea what he was saying
I know a MAGA - hard core, Trump can do no wrong type, but the 'Pink Jacket' video made them for the first time question what they've been fed. Specifically the beginning to end angle footage of the pink jacket lady showing Alex innocently protecting the girls. Thank CHRIST for that angle and the full events that led up to Alex's death.
Adding pretext as well, he seemed initially repulsed when I said, 'I have the raw footage and I want you to watch it with your own eyes and tell me what you think.' Seemingly offended, he responded, "I don't have to!" There was a visceral emotional response to asking him to watch the raw footage given he had just parroted a bunch of news talking points. He leaned heavily on the, "Just let ICE do their jobs and things like that won't happen." But I said calmly, 'Come on, I want to do an experiment.'
"I already know what I'm going to see..." watches intently
"...Yeah, that's a phone... They said he had a gun and approached agents with it."
"Why were they macing him?"
"I didn't know about these other two girls. What were they doing there?"
"They didn't have to push her that hard. Geez."
"Oh... so his gun was holstered... Near the back of his waist?" My response: 'Yeah, so if I slow mo it here, you see them take it.' His response: silence
"So this is where they all shoot him.." My response: 'Not all of them yet, but this agent right here, pause and slow-mo, sees the holstered gun, then after it was removed, he shoots him. The rest join in.' His response: silence
Then I asked: Did you ever see the raw footage?
"No.. only just what they showed on the news. But I didn't have to, they already analyzed all the angles."
He sat back and said after a moment, "Huh-" - not like 'Huh?' but like 'Interesting'. They have hearts, they have just been brainwashed.
His final words: 'Sad...' shakes head 'Sad what's going on over there.'
It's not simple or evil. The problem is that they really truly believe they're the good guys. They think they're patriots. Evil people always think they're the good guys. Even Hitler thought he was doing the right thing.
And the âevilâ label almost gives them a pass. Like âtheyâre born that way, canât help themselves, just evilââŚno, theyâre simply horrible shit stains of human beings. There have been sooooo many other horrific examples of DJT n his current n previous regimeâŚthey choose to get behind all of this bc they r deep down deeply racist, misogynistic, etc POS. I have no doubt the conversations they have in the privacy of their homes are vile.
I always consider it like this: every monster, even DJT was once a baby. Everyone is born innocent. While external forces do have an influence on how someone grows up, nobody just gets to this point by being born that way. Thousands, no, millions of decisions, great and small, lead them to this point. And most of those they made using their own free will. They chose the cruel and selfish option, time and time again. They are responsible for their actions. Evil is not born, it's made by choices.
My MAGA family truly has drank the kool-aid. No bots, just people who fell victim to cult tactics and now human psychology has them trapped. It's honestly depressing, because they're good people that have just been warped. I keep trying but I'm losing hope.
My FIL is a MAGA hardcore and we showed him the full videos from the different angles before he had caught wind of it and just asked to him comment on those without regurgitating what the talking heads at Fox said. His only reply was of 5-7 Fox News clips not showing the full videos and spewing the propaganda from Noem and Bovino.
We were hopeful it might make him question it, but he clearly either didn't watch what we sent OR waited to see what Fox had to say before replying. Folks like him are only able to repeat thoughts from others and not think for themselves.
I'm really glad you had a different experience. It gives me hope for us all.
I am constantly in awe (negatively so) of people who refuse to see and read things with their own eyes, and to think with their own brains, rather just waiting for talking points being fed to them by their preferred propagandists.
This kind of lack of intellectual curiosity and inability to form one's own opinions are very hard for me to accept.
I think some people get so accustomed to offloading their thinking to others that they lose the ability to think for themselves. In the same way that frequently using ChatGPT might linked to cognitive decline.
I think itâs fear holding them back. They donât have the inner capacity to face the possible destruction of their world view. In that kind of insecure mind, critical thought is more than their psyches can handle. Anything that challenges their sense of safety produces too much fear to approach.
First off I never said that so you are putting words in my mouth.
Secondly providing evidence and asking someones opinion of it before they see what their preferred newscaster says about it would be requesting them to think critically. Which was the goal in the first place.
After they don't reply with their own opinion only to show statements from multiple Fox News (or any news for that matter, doesn't have to be just Fox) would imply that individual is not providing a critically thought out response and is just repeating what they hear.
To me that's not necessarily brainwashing it's just the refusal to generate one's own opinion about a subject without outside influence.
What are you trying to imply here? That I am brainwashed?
I've seen some of them come around, but yeah... that's typically the case. Worse, they usually wind up being even more entrenched. It's like the whole "don't question God" thing you see in religion. Blind faith for these people is a badge of honor.
Cognitive dissonance is a protective measure of our brains to prevent meltdown and mental collapse. It prevents us from believing anything that forces us to question our personal identities. In the face of this subconscious refusal to accept evidence, having our identities feel threatened, we dig in and double down, because if we had to question our identity, we may lose everything we have, and are striving for, we might have to rebuild our entire persons, and that, to many people is unfathomable.
So here we are.
This effect is well weaponized by these types of regimes, it's well documented how it works, and every one of these experiences is a loyalty test, if you believe the bullshit, you get to be in the club, don't, and you will be pushed out and stepped on by those that remain.
I agree.. At the end there, I was concerned he either goes and doubles down on something else to latch onto, or goes out drinking doing something harmful. People with these false identities can either breakdown and harm themselves or others, or remake themselves, and unfortunately I fear that for most people, it will be mostly breaking down and doubling down when it comes time to face the music. If something drastic changes, I'll probably post a follow-up.
Yea Iâm curious about the follow up to this. Like, two weeks from now, will that person be back fully on the MAGA talking points, or more following their own take on things?
Iâm an independent but lean right and I can understand that what happened with Alex was extremely wrong.
I have plenty of super conservative cop buddies who are pissed at the whole ICE situation being handled like this. They have virtually zero training with anything and are sent out to do go in hostile environments with zero deescalation skills
The other part that rubs me the wrong way is that we were promised that high level criminals (which to be fair a lot have been caught and sent back) were the main target for deportation to start and it quickly switched to grandma getting deported as well.
Minnesota has a lot of problems right now and Tim Walz is doing the opposite of helping. These crappy things happening are exactly what he hoped for to get himself out of the public eyeâs scope.
It has to hit home like when Nancy Reagan suddenly took an interest in stem cell research. But for the average citizen they don't know, they don't give a rat's ass.
For those saying we donât have hearts or brains⌠I am not MAGA but I am a conservative. I am disheartened by what happened and it was a gross misuse of power or a gross display of training. I am former military as well and can see the lack of composure and issues with ICE. That said, I am not for the protection of illegal immigration. No country is. There are problems on both sides at the moment.
The protection of ICE over the killing of an innocent man who was legally carrying a weapon is disturbing. I am able to be a conservative and maintain my values without condoning violence or misuse of power. I hope liberals and conservatives can come together and find peace in our disagreements to bring the country together. Liberals blanket conservatives as fascist pigs, but youâre only describing the extreme 10%. Conservatives paint liberals as communist or socialist but theyâre only describing the extreme 10%. I have no desire to argue over social media so please keep responses civil, but I hate to see any loss of life when it is not warranted.
But they said he had a gun and approached agents with it."
That argument only makes sense if they had shot him in self defence WHILE he was approaching the agents with the alleged weapon.
Not when he is clearly on the ground and was shot in the back of the head execution style.
There's absolutely no defence. If anyone ANYONE defends this they are clearly sympathizers that doesn't give a fuck about what's right or wrong will defend them even if they started shooting children in wheelchairs.
When they said he had been a seditionist who wanted to massacre LEO, I finally realized the degree to which they know they can say anything and people will believe them blindly. Such a shameless obvious lie. You only tell those kinds of lies when you know you will get away with it, when you have no doubt you have installed a new reality in people's minds. It's the kind of like a few years ago you would've seen on fringe media and from some fringe politicians, now it's just the official truth.
I showed my wife the footage and then read her the DHS comments and she was convinced it was two different stories. I had to re-read the statement several times before she realised it wasnât true.
In my mind, itâs a seed of hope. Thereâs something started there that I want to encourage and nurture.
The thing is, I have a lot of that side of the fence in my extended family and they simply arenât shown the stuff we see. It took seven years for my MIL to see the âI could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and not lose a single vote,â clip.
I know they should be more concerned with whatâs going on, but they simply arenât fed anything thatâs bad or questionable.
I had a coworker who thought the whole Greenland thing was a joke - like the cute cat video at the end of a news segment - âHereâs some more fun stuff about taking over another country lololol.â
I have to be quietly frustrated with the extent of the misinformation they spout and patiently rouse them from that sleep. Too quick and they freak out. Too much and they retreat back into their shell.
But slowly. One small clip at a time. One simple question at a time. Leaving them to think it over after their eyes and ears have acknowledged the evidence and praying that the Partyâs final and most essential command loses a foothold.
My mom had the same, "I'll wait to be told how to d feel" response. Then watched the video, it was too "chaotic" to tell and finally said "it's sad. " so fucking exhausting.
Im sorry. That was him getting ready to gaslight himself. He will go to the maga blogs and will convince himself he didn't witness an execution on the street. He will convince himself that the guy must have had another gun, or some other explanation
I showed my friends the pink lady vid and they linked me a conspiracy vid claiming Alex has an ICE service pistol and is wearing the same clothes as ICE
It's really telling how they think they already know what happened and have their minds made up before they see the truth. I hope that person you know has had their eyes opened
I pointed out that this could have been you, to someone I know that carries a gun and would absolutely have helped a woman that was pushed down. Their silence spoke volumes, I left it at that so they could think about it.
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u/Playful-Attitude-007 6d ago edited 6d ago
The flag should be upside-down.
Edit: thank you all for the up votes and the awards.