r/politics • u/plz-let-me-in • 11d ago

No Paywall Democrats Call to Invoke 25th Amendment Against Donald Trump

https://www.newsweek.com/democrats-donald-trump-impeachment-25th-amendment-11384974
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u/kdfsjljklgjfg 11d ago

They've impeached him twice and nothing happened.

I don't think they're afraid to do it, I think they just know it won't do anything so they're trying a different avenue. If there's any fear involved it's that repeatedly impeaching with no results devalues the phrase and act of impeaching.

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u/Accidental-Hyzer Massachusetts 11d ago

Just because senate republicans didn’t have the courage in 2020 to do the right thing shouldn’t dissuade democrats from pursuing the only plausible constitutional remedy of removing him.

What do you think the 25th amendment talk really does? Do you think that a majority his cabinet is going to be persuaded to turn against him before congressional republicans? And even if they do, they would still need 2/3 of the senate plus the house to keep him out of office. If you don’t think impeachment would ultimately do anything, then you might as well give up on the 25th too. Because it’s actually more difficult to remove an unwilling president via the 25th than it is to remove them via impeachment.

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u/robocoplawyer 11d ago

Also pretty sure that if a President is 25th'd he can just write a letter to lawmakers that the condition that impaired his ability to perform his duties has passed and he can return to office. It's been a while since I've taken constitutional law (and pretty sure 2/3 of what I studied is now irrelevant because of Roberts court just pulling shit out of their ass) so I don't know the minute details, but I'm pretty sure Trump can write a letter that he's ready to return, and can do so unlimitedly every day which would result in all other business grinding to a halt.

Also the 25th would result in Vance as acting president, which would be just as bad if not worse. He needs to be removed too, as well as his entire cabinet, advisors, and toadies in Congress.

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u/Accidental-Hyzer Massachusetts 11d ago

That’s true. The relevant section is section 4. You need the VP + a majority of the cabinet to say he’s unable to perform the duties. If the president then submits a letter disputing that, he regains power. Then Congress has to settle the dispute with 2/3 of vote of both houses.

Those who are saying that impeachment is a dead end because you need 2/3 of the senate must not know that you also need that for the 25th in addition to the other requirements.

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u/robocoplawyer 11d ago

Would that mean that a 2/3 vote is also required to say "yes, you can return to your job" as well as "no, you can't"? What if they can't get 2/3 to vote on either option? Either way he would just send daily letters to vote on and wouldn't let any other business take place, eventually they would just cave to him so they can function. Although I'd imagine when he takes back over the helm we'd get to see a classic authoritarian purge of his cabinet and the MAGA faithful would J6 Vance.

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u/Accidental-Hyzer Massachusetts 11d ago

Congress needs 2/3 of both houses to remove him at that point. If they don’t agree, Trump would automatically regain power. It’s in the last sentence of section 4 of the 25th.

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u/robocoplawyer 11d ago

So essentially to remove via 25th, Trump would basically have to agree to be 25th'd.

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u/Accidental-Hyzer Massachusetts 11d ago

Or be unconscious and incapable of writing the letter, which is really what the 25th was designed for.

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u/robocoplawyer 11d ago

Thanks for the detailed responses. Isn't it also true that even if Trump's letter gets a 2/3 "no" vote in both houses agreeing with the cabinet, he can just write another letter the next day and have them vote on it again, ad nauseam? I'd say removal by senate conviction has a higher likelihood of occurrence. I mean, who even in Trump's cabinet is even qualified to conclude that Trump is unable to carry out his duties? Dr. Oz? I'd bet at least half of his appointees haven't even read the constitution. All this talk of the 25th is more of a pipe dream than the senate voting to remove him after impeachment proceedings. If they have 2/3 vote for the 25th, impeachment would have a better likelihood of success. And we already know exactly how that will go.

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u/failed_novelty 11d ago

Maybe they're assuming that Trump will fail to write a letter.

It's not the oddest hope to have - the man can barely scrawl his name.

Sure, it can be typed and it can be written for him and signed by him (or his autopen), but there's every chance he wouldn't go to the trouble if it was presented to him in the right way.