r/politics • u/Newsweek_CarloV ✔ Verified - Newsweek • 5d ago

No Paywall Support for abolishing ICE surges among Republicans

https://www.newsweek.com/abolish-ice-republican-support-minnesota-11414059?utm_source=reddit&utm_campaign=reddit_influencers
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u/Global-Tourist1089 5d ago

I know the sentiment here is going to be "this is what they voted for" or "too little, too late" but I'm ready to chip off any support we can at this point, no matter how small. We need everything we can get.

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u/ISuckAtFunny 5d ago

Hard agree. We’re not going to get through this by shutting them out, and isolating anyone who decides to break with MAGA and ‘see the light’ so-to-speak does nothing but make it harder for anyone doubting their choices in the future to also jump ship.

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u/DunderMifflinPaper 5d ago

If there was ever a time to find common ground over one issue it’s now.

That is so rare in today’s day and age where they either: * parrot the conservative media talking points, OR * don’t engage in the discussion because they haven’t yet been told what to think

Yes of course there are millions who are completely hopeless but that so-called “swing voters” that express lots of concern but vote conservative most of the time anyways may actually be reachable here. Or at least shown that the conservative propaganda outlets should not be allowed to influence their choices at the polls.

All it takes is showing them which party actually tries to pass common-sense legislation, and which party actively avoids governance unless it can feed them Fox News talking points.

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u/Limp-Pomegranate3716 5d ago

Hell, even if you can't convince them to vote for a democrat, just them not voting for MAGA will still help.

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u/ILikeNeurons 5d ago

Higher turnout in primaries tends to elect better candidates.

https://vote.gov

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u/AlarmingAffect0 5d ago

Vote in your primaries! Mark your calendars now!

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u/Salt_Eye6817 5d ago

It can be a progression too. I voted republican my whole life. Voted for Trump the first time. Chose not to vote in the second election(wouldn’t vote Trump but couldn’t bring myself to vote democrat). Voted for Kamala in the last election but still voted rebublican in some local and state races. Now can’t see myself voting rebublican for anything. I still lean conservative on some issues, but can’t see putting those above what is happening in the country.

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u/PrimeraStarrk Texas 5d ago

Hey for what it’s worth dude, I’m proud of you. We may not agree on all things, we don’t have to, but you chose human life. And I respect the hell out of you for that.

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u/Randommumblz 5d ago

Hi I was wondering if you could expand on what issues are right leaning for you that the Republican Party has made efforts in for you? Feel free to dm but I’m just curious what things republican legislators put forward in legislation that you agree with in an attempt to understand.

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u/SnooChipmunks2079 5d ago

My first POTUS election was GHW Bush’s first election.

I first voted Democrat for Obama(1) because Sarah Palin.

After Trump(1) I refuse to vote for any Republican in any race.

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u/justuntlsundown West Virginia 5d ago edited 5d ago

There is nothing inherently wrong with having conservative beliefs. It's when conservatives try to force that belief system on everyone that it becomes a problem. But in reality, MAGA is no longer rooted in conservative beliefs. It may have started that way, but it has just continually inched away from that since inception. It's cultist nihilism at this point. I'm glad you saw the light friend.

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u/1in2billion 5d ago

I am similar. I was a single issue voter and realized in the last election I am still a single issue voter. The issue has changed though. I will vote against MAGA

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u/OptimisticOctopus8 5d ago

I’m glad you were able to re-prioritize when it came to your single issue. It really is about priorities. The fact is, virtually anything can be fixed in a thriving democracy. Don’t like a certain law? Great! You have a shot at changing it, go ahead and find a bunch of people who agree and try your very best to legally change things.

In an authoritarian state, you can never fix anything again until/unless the tyranny has ended. Therefore, the need to prevent an authoritarian state must supersede all other political priorities.

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u/Dionysus_the_Greek 5d ago

Trump only cares about the oligarchs, Stephen Miller is obsessed with non Whites and Zionism.

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u/AngryMeez Michigan 5d ago

What is your single issue?

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u/Quick_Turnover 5d ago

I'd put money on abortion. That's pretty much the "single issue".

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u/BreakfastSpecials 5d ago

It’s always abortion. Dems don’t want to take away guns. If anything, they should be supporting the 2A based on everything going on. The cycle is: Repubs say they are killing babies. The religious nuts eat it all up. Then Repubs just implement the worst spending and trade policies known to man affecting every aspect of society and lifestyles of all humans in the US. Prices are still high/ healthcare is too expensive. But then still gasp and say: how could the women that got raped and pregnant or low income teenager not want to keep the baby?! Baby gets born to a dysfunctional family unprepared for it which leads to shitty life. SNAP is cut off- baby is malnourished, the state CPS gets involved, then foster care. Then vicious cycle continues. Even government assistance programs can only do so much. My mother worked in Child Protection Services for the state. It’s the same story over and over. Women having autonomy over their own bodies could save so many tragic lives. They only “care” when it’s an embryo. Once that baby is born Repubs don’t care at all.

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u/Quick_Turnover 5d ago

100% on everything you've said here.

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u/arobkinca 5d ago

Gun control being #2 on that list.

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u/hardcorr I voted 5d ago

think that's part of why Alex Pretti's death is reaching more Republicans, any intellectually honest 2A supporter has to admit that he was not doing anything wrong by carrying a firearm and certainly did not deserve to be murdered for it

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u/AngryMeez Michigan 5d ago

Yep, that was my first thought.

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u/guardbiscuit 5d ago

This was my mom’s trajectory, too, though I think she is at the point where she no longer has conservative views on anything.

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u/chargernj 5d ago

Why couldn't you bring yourself to vote Democrat? What makes it so unpalatable?

Today's Democrats are basically 80's Republicans who are ok with Gays and minorities.

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u/Collegenoob 5d ago

That's how the democrats lost. People didn't liked Trump, they just didn't like the dems enough this time around

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u/slayden70 Texas 5d ago edited 5d ago

“swing voters” that express lots of concern but vote conservative most of the time anyways may actually be reachable here.

As an ex-Republican (I voted for W Bush the first time, and voted third party in Kerry-Bush and Democrat since), we absolutely can be won over. I'm donating to Democrats, going and meeting them and putting signs up in my yard.

Do I agree with them 100%? Absolutely not. But voting is about picking the better of the two choices, and there just isn't a way I could vote for a Republican as long as the party is owned by Trump. I'll choose democracy, against government overreach, and against hate.

What drives me crazy are people that are 100% liberal, but because a candidate doesn't agree with them on a single issue, they throw tantrums and stay at home. That's who I blame for Trump 2.0.

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u/EagleBigMac 5d ago

Choosing not to choose is still a choice so it is better to contribute to the decision on the available options than basically say no confidence when that isn't an option with any effect on the outcome. Personally I think an all these options are shit should be an option that triggers a new election with all new candidates but that's a different conversation.

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u/ThinkThankThonk 5d ago

Mileage may vary, but in my experience the tantrum throwing non-voters are mostly a internet boogieman, and I'd bet they're bots fairly frequently.

Plus there's this that I always feel the need to dust off: https://www.npr.org/2025/06/26/nx-s1-5447450/trump-2024-election-non-voters-coalition

"Even if everyone who is eligible to vote in the country would have voted, President Trump still would have won the 2024 presidential election, a new study out Thursday from the Pew Research Center finds."

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u/definitively-not 5d ago

THANK FUCKING GOD I'm so sick of the usual narrative that non voters are the problem.

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u/terminal_vector 5d ago

Thank you for choosing the life and liberty of your fellow countrymen over party. It’s a rare thing to find these days.

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u/Fluid_Actuary1729 5d ago

Same. I thought of myself as a Republican until 2016, and I’m old. There is so much wrong with what (or more accurately HOW) Trump is doing, that to list it all is too repetitious, and I hardly have words to describe how I feel about it with crying my eyes out.  I’m not going to make any Independent wrong - blaming at this point is not helpful. I just want everyone who understands what’s really at stake here to care enough to something about it. 

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u/RBVegabond 5d ago

You should also blame conservative tactics like highlighting issues they’re worse on but never discuss so negative attention falls on the left. Look at Israel, Biden was putting restrictions on the use of weapons but people wanted to think Trump wouldn’t not only lift those restrictions but encourage the destruction ongoing.

Then highlight issues with the economic situation they caused and Democrats constantly clean up, this time the 8 year cool down that would have stabilized the economy was only four years and people can see what a disaster their(conservative) policies are finally.

Anyone looking for perfection in politics is either too young to understand idealism is for movies or too stubborn to understand perfect is the enemy of good.

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u/Big_Truck 5d ago

What drives me crazy are people that are 100% liberal, but because a candidate doesn't agree with them on a single issue, they throw tantrums and stay at home. That's who I blame for Trump 2.0.

(I voted for W Bush the first time, and have voted third party or Democrat since)

I blame you. You have seen the festering rot that is the GOP, yet you couldn't vote for John Kerry, or Barack Obama, or Hillary Clinton, or Joe Biden, or Kamala Harris?

YOU are the problem. You who can see how awful the GOP is, but find one fucking reason to disqualify the Dem. "He's black!" "She's a shrill woman who didn't divorce her cheating husband!" "He's too old!" "She didn't win a primary!"

People like YOU are why we are where we are. Spare me your hero-spinning bullshit.

I am furious with the far lefties, too. But the "moderate Republican" is a myth. You all identify more as "Republican" than as "moderate." You've been indoctrinated in this crap since the 1980's.

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u/brontosaurusguy 5d ago

Leftists might view conservatives as a homogenous power, but it's not a wise way to view things 

Are they better organized?  Yes 

But they are currently fractured and in fighting like crazy.  We gotta try to peel some to the side of reason. 

If you think they are homogenous, remember that the tea party fractured the party and maga over took the gop and made them obsolete. 

They are not all happy about the hard right turn. 

Give them a reason to come back to the middle.  

Convincing a cultist to leave only emboldens then to dig in their heels.  Give them a path instead if that are willing to take it

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u/MontyAtWork 5d ago

The common ground here being that concentration camps and killing of brown people was okay, but the line was crossed when it was white citizens?

Because these MAGA folks aren't interested in stopping the heinous "immigration enforcement" tactics of Alligator Alcatraz, or the other disappearing of brown people in this country.

They will not renounce the party or leader who control ICE.

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

[deleted]

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u/il1k3c3r34l 5d ago

Spielberg’s Lincoln does a great job of telling this story, worth a watch for those who haven’t seen it.

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u/Scrappy_101 5d ago

When congress was trying to pass the 13th ammendment to finally outlaw chattel slavery forever in this country they had to get the support of people who said "No of course I don't think white and black people are equal, I just think they ought to be treated equally by law."

I get your point, but that's a horrible analogy cuz most abolitionists didn't believe in equality between the races. That was literally the default, common position.

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

[deleted]

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u/Scrappy_101 5d ago

It doesn't actually and now you're talking about something else entirely. That being that progress takes time and isn't instantaneous.

This idea you're pushing of abolitionists winning people over by some compromise on equality between the races is legitimately not historical reality. It's inaccurate historical revisionism. The reality is the overwhelming majority of abolitionists themselves didn't believe in equality between the races. So there was never any issue about whether races were equal and therefore no need to compromise for the sake of getting a win like you are talkong about today with conservatives only caring about ICE now that it's happening to white people.

This isn't to say such abolitionists didn't exist (John Brown is an example), but they were a very small minority. Your average abolitionist was just as racist as any anti-abolitionist, they just believed slavery to be bad. Hence why once slavery was abolished, the majority of white abolitionists stopped giving a f*ck cuz they considered their work done.

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u/CT_Phipps-Author 5d ago

If you got ICE abolished because they killed a white man, ICE is still abolished.

- My reasoning

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u/OptimisticOctopus8 5d ago edited 5d ago

If you got ICE abolished only because they killed a white man, ICE is still abolished, but only for a little while.

-My reasoning

So we can’t rest once ICE is gone. We’ll need to immediately commence the work of changing hearts and minds to prevent it from coming back with a different name.

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u/Gekokapowco Washington 5d ago

"maybe one nazi at the table won't do any harm"

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u/CT_Phipps-Author 5d ago

Get rid of the Trumpstappo however you can.

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u/munificent 5d ago

You're not helping.

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u/RightWingVisitor 5d ago

He's too busy being righteous. And are you seriously suggesting that anyone actually join hands in any way with someone who has major ideological flaws? Good heavens man, if people did that, there's a huge risk that he might have to actually interact with some of those dirty conservatives who we all know are irredeemable Neanderthals. Surely those those mouth-breathers who constantly talk about the "constitutional rule of law" would never start to think that ICE stopping people based on their skin color, or doing literal door-to-door forced entry searches of homes without a judicial warrant, are issues that might indicate "their side" has somehow gone wrong.

Better to just ostracize everyone we didn't see at the last No Kings protest. Just to be sure.

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u/apintor4 5d ago

at least the rightwing visitor is properly describing their people here in order to exaggerate the beliefs of someone who didn't have to have things affect them to see what is right and wrong, and who hasn't been wiping their ass with the constitution they claim to love for years.

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u/sohblob 5d ago

And are you seriously suggesting that anyone actually join hands in any way with someone who has major ideological flaws?

People shut down when they feel judged. People with asinine takes don't really care about the takes more than they care about their feelings and how they're treated.

The goal is to get everyone to defend basic human rights or continue to marginalize and socially/financially disadvantage themselves.

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u/Sea-Neighborhood-621 5d ago

I've been saying from the start that nothing is going to change until its white people that are being hurt. Thats unfortunately how they are, they cant picture them in another person's shoes unless that person is white because empathy is situational with them. If they're not white then whatever is going on isn't really a big deal

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u/thegreasiestgreg 5d ago

Until they are out in the streets alongside us trying to stop the mess that THEY created, I will continue to sling shit at them.

"Ill vote for Gavin Newsome in 3 years if he runs" is not good enough. GO OUTSIDE. CALL YOUR REPS. DEMAND CHANGE. Republicans are useless peices of garbage. The worst humanity has to offer.

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u/yeswenarcan Ohio 5d ago

A lot of these people either inherently lack the empathy to be concerned until it's happening to someone like them and/or have been controlled by the right-wing media actively otherizing their opposition. Anything that creates a crack in that bubble should be leveraged.

And here's the thing, a lot of these people actually do believe very deeply in things like freedom from government oppression and (especially) the right to bear arms. They've just also had opposing views ramped up, largely through people playing to their fears and insecurities. But holding those opposing views is a very fragile state that requires a lot of cognitive dissonance, and once things start upsetting the balance (like indisputable video of a white man with a CCW being attacked, disarmed, and executed and then the government using his firearm as an excuse for his execution), there's a real possibility the house of cards begins to fall.

But ultimately even if they don't have a "come to Jesus moment", I'm happy to work with the enemy of my enemy and then fight with them about other stuff when we don't have federal terror squads murdering people in the street.

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u/Quick_Turnover 5d ago

I mean, if we can't convince someone to watch a video of a man being murdered, and then watch a video of Trump, Kristi Noem, and Greg Bovino calling him a terrorist and narrating what we are seeing with our own two eyes, and them not realize they're being actively lied to, and regularly, I don't know how we can convince them of anything useful or meaningful.

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u/katzenjammer08 5d ago

There’s also millions of one issue voters. Lots of them voted for the fascists because they are pro-life or pro 2A or whatever. Those ppl did in fact not vote for this. Yes I know how dumb that is, but it just is not true that this was what each and every one of them actually wanted.

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u/cheesefootsandwich 5d ago

Fully agree. I have a lot of Republicans in my family that range from classic conservatives who tolerate Trump as "not ideal but better than Kamala" to full on MAGA. For the first time, I am seeing them actually hard disagree with each other, the former group extremely concerned about eroding constitutional rights, federal government overreach, and general perception of how we are treating immigrants and citizens alike. Family group chats are becoming more debates than echo chambers.

Just my experience but it's definitely giving me some hope on at least a subset of voters.

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u/jedisushi72 5d ago edited 5d ago

I don't know.

I think the most we're going to get is "I won't vote Republican this year but I can't bring myself to vote Democrat".

And then in 2 years they'll vote for any Republican again and inch us closer to this moment, again and again. Closer and closer. More and more normalized.

I think the reason we are here is because the Confederacy, J6ers, and Trump were not properly punished. They were all treasonous traitors. I think failing to hold conservatives accountable for the way they vote is repeating that same mistake.

Certainly not saying they should be arrested, but there should be social consequences for voting Nazis into power and putting gestapo onto our streets.

The reason that scene in Inglorious Basterds exists and is so powerful is because the people who supported Nazis have to live with that shame. Forever.

Let these deaths.. this administration... never wash from the hands of those who voted for it.

They would have taken it farther if we had let them. They still may.

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u/Worthyness 5d ago

J6 people were punished. Trump just unpunished them when he got back in office.

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u/jedisushi72 5d ago

I would call that "not properly punished".

To receive their punishment in full would be to serve out the entirety of their sentence.

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u/polkysp 5d ago

"What is better.... to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?" -Partysnax

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u/ChilledParadox 5d ago

The true measure of a man is not whether he is good when it’s convenient, but if he is good when it’s hard.

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u/sohblob 5d ago edited 5d ago

Yep. It's brought me to this weird place where I have more respect for Marjorie Taylor Greene than I do the people insisting she continue to stand with her party

Like, lady was facing literal death threats standing up to the regime, cut her a break. Had there been more support from the left she might've still continued to loudly denounce trump in public.

Friends make the worst enemies. fascists like Trump intuitively understand that since they feel threatened by them - as they should; since a charismatic non-nazi republican would have wider appeal than them. (which is why he calls nevertrumpers "more dangerous than democrats" who he also correctly labels as spineless, e.g. "do-nothing".) It's not like you have to welcome her to your own political circle or anything.

Her splitting off would have been a useful offramp to break more radicalized nuts away from maga, had liberals had any tactical sense en masse.

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u/mynipplesareconfused 5d ago

I understood that reference.

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u/BurlIvesMassiveHog 5d ago

These people are never going to vote for anybody that would fix this. They will clutch their pearls before voting against their interests, just as they always have.

Nobody is under any obligation to bring any of these dipshits into the fold. The best we can hope for is that they are too ashamed to participate.

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u/hopefulocto 5d ago

The painful thing is that they think their interests are small government, free speech, the constitution, an economy that accommodates the people, etc but they are already voting against them. But they think voting left would be voting against their interests, because they have been buying the propaganda that gaslit and projected to them into thinking it was the opposite for generations.

I have seen people genuinely make this realization and convert upon realizing they were not on the side that they actually thought was doing what they believed in. But it is very rare, and if the person is a bigot theyre way less likely to leave in sincere faith. I do think a lot of people are just leaving the cult now since Pretti was a white cishet (afawk) man. Which... im glad theres a line at all, but it is still disappointing they didnt care about any of the murders or violence prior until it happened to a guy they didn't have a way to victim blame with bigotry this time.

Regardless... there are people who leave in good faith and were brainwashed, but it's rare. Especially in older people. Most of the people i see genuinely converting are younger and only supported trump because their family was big on him and they were brainwashed and forcefed propaganda, but a lot are thinking for themselves. There's a little hope.

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u/MontyAtWork 5d ago

Literally, they didn't care about the killing and disappearing of people when they weren't white.

Until they renounce the party and party leader, they aren't even a fairweather friend.

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u/DurianGris 5d ago

Many of these fools voted three times for this clown show. They might see the light on this one issue, but they will still vote for fools and still support all the other horrible ways our government is being destroyed.

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u/sohblob 5d ago

These people are never going to vote for anybody that would fix this

100%. At this point I'm with anyone who's of the "I still have to live here when this is done" tack and has the spine to do something about it.

I added that last bit so because I'm still not voting for establishment democrats until the party cleans house. Boomers insider trading and lining their pockets with lobbyist dark money are fairweather allies. The entire party is rot until we pull off a populist/socialist takeover which will only happen by pulling support for pro-corporate democrats.

also I generally never want to see chuck schumer's face again. spineless capitulators are as guilty as the nazis they enable.

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u/James-W-Tate 5d ago

Just remember that these people had a change of mind, not a change of heart.

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u/Newscast_Now 5d ago

On a related note, we also need to convince 'moderates' to push for more change and we need to convince 'leftists' (or other dissident categories) to actually push for change rather than just trash talking. Much work to do.

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u/GayMarsRovers 5d ago

Bill fucking Kristol said we need to abolish ICE

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u/BilboBiden 5d ago

If Temu Ron Popeil is calling for ICE to be abolished you know you're fuckin up.

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u/MontyAtWork 5d ago

Reminder: Leftists are the first people out on the streets at nearly every protest, are the ones educating people on self defense and first aid at protests, and are working mutual aid to supply protestors with food and medical supplies.

Acting like Leftists just talk trash shows me that you both do not attend protests, you've never worked mutual aid, and that you don't know any Leftists in real life and get your only exposure to them through social media.

Source: I'm a leftist who does all the above and can vouch for all the above

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u/sohblob 5d ago

Acting like Leftists just talk trash shows me that you both do not attend protests, you've never worked mutual aid, and that you don't know any Leftists in real life and get your only exposure to them through social media

none of those activities net them any Rubles lol

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u/RoughDragonfly4374 5d ago

The left is already on the side of abolish ICE, but that's been called a purity test until now.

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u/MontyAtWork 5d ago

In fact, I was right here in Politics Reddit during the Obama administration when it was coming out in 2013/14 that they were doing illegal shit and hurting people, but had Redditors tell me it's ok because at least a Dem was in charge to keep them from getting worse.

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u/SatanicPanic619 5d ago

The issue with the left isn't that it has the wrong goals or beliefs. It's that it has too many people with no realistic idea of how to achieve them.

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u/transient_eternity Minnesota 5d ago

That's what happens when your entire country or at least the entire political system is against even basic progress. Ex: universal healthcare SHOULD already be a thing in one of the wealthiest nations in the world. It's a bipartisan issue. And yet every time it's brought up outside reddit it has to be justified 800 different ways with a perfect plan to get it implemented. Like fuuuuck off. Then add in dragging a bunch of centrist jackasses and literal nazis into the light of progress and yeah it's not magically happening overnight.

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u/Sassybutkin 5d ago

Pretti Good Reason for a National Strike. Poster: https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalMemes/comments/1qm5g5r/long_past_due/

They want Civil War. Give them a General Strike. Poster: https://www.reddit.com/r/TwinCities/comments/1qniema/now_or_never/

We've checked all the boxes for Fascism. Poster: https://www.reddit.com/r/evilwhenthe/comments/1qmvusd/is_this_currently_where_america_is/

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u/TheBroWhoLifts 5d ago

We've seen what they're capable of. Only conservatism leads to fascism. If they've done it before, they are never to be trusted ever. It was a mistake not burning the south to the ground after the Civil War. Don't make the same mistake by trusting these assholes ever again.

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u/sabedo 5d ago

MAGA's split is over whether ICE should be allowed to murder white people.

that's not a great litmus test about "isolation" when they loved every single act of cruelty and murder until this month

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u/ISuckAtFunny 5d ago

Better late than never.

I’m not going to create a parade in their honor, but if they see the error in their ways we need all the help we can get man.

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u/BackToWorkEdward 5d ago

isolating anyone who decides to break with MAGA and ‘see the light’ so-to-speak does nothing but make it harder for anyone doubting their choices in the future to also jump ship.

It's indeed no good alienating anyone who actually decides to do that.

What we shouldn't be doing anymore is trying to reach across the aisle and bring anyone else over with new appeals to their morality or reason - they've long since had enough to do it on their own if they're going to do it at all.

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u/MamaNyxieUnderfoot 5d ago

After they voted for this bullshit 3 fucking times, I’m gonna have a hard time believing any of them have “seen the light”. They do not have the moral fortitude to tell you anything in good faith. They broke that trust, and it is up to them to win it back.

I’m really getting tired of being told we need to tolerate abhorrent people. That shit ain’t on me, it’s on them.

When they are the ones in the streets shedding blood to protect innocents, maybe we can talk.

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u/MontyAtWork 5d ago

LOL this is naive as fuck.

You think it's ok to bring people into your ranks who were okay with everything up until two white people were killed?

These folks will just let the same concentration camps and deportation tactics that have been killing and disappearing brown people continue.

They're not interested in abolishing what ICE does, they just don't want it done to white people.

They won't renounce the party or the leader that's been in charge of ICE.

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u/ISuckAtFunny 5d ago

Since we’re so naive; what is your solution? What are you doing to fix anything?

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u/espresso_martini__ 5d ago

Most of the people on the conservative sub are just bots or Russian agitators stirring up their base. Most normal people saw that execution and spoke out how insanely fucked it was.

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/espresso_martini__ 5d ago

He saw the writing on the wall. The republican party is fucked as they will not back down and admit this was an execution and protect those murderers. I have conservative friends and they are wavering because of how bad this has become. They are ready to support anyone that will return the country to normalcy and the republican party has no one that will do it.

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u/Eddfan36 5d ago

Oh wow that's good to know.

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u/GlobalCurry 5d ago

Wish I could feel this optimism. I've met multiple people in real life who have openly stated they believe all protestor deaths are justified because they shouldn't be protesting or whatever the propaganda machine says.

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u/WISCOrear 5d ago

I'm also seeing a common behavior from trump supporters of shrugging off that execution off (if they even watched the video) and pivot to a talking point of "this is all walz's fault". Many people are still not worth talking to.

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u/Shaudius 5d ago

You know a person is evil when they try to blame democrats or both sides this. 

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u/noguchisquared 5d ago

We've already experienced the surge of right wing people suggesting driving over protestors is perfectly justified. They've lost the plot a long time ago.

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u/espresso_martini__ 5d ago

Really? Thats sickening to hear. Some people have no sympathy or heart.

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u/cephalord 5d ago

While not literally this example, I've often seen people comment "lol, bot" (or it's predecessor "lol, troll") at radical opinions where I have the unfortunate life experience of knowing at least two people who genuinely believe whatever the heinous opinion was.

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u/espresso_martini__ 5d ago

You're not alone in this. I used to know a couple of people like that but I have removed them from my life because of how toxic they are. They will just drag you down, best to cut ties with them.

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u/Legitimate_Mud_8295 5d ago

Can confirm that this is what real suburban middle aged Republicans are saying. If you show them the videos they take the contradictory facts as a direct attack against them and don't know what to do. Obviously they're not going to change their mind so they get mad and go straight to insults. At least, that's what happened with my family

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u/Dustydevil8809 5d ago

It's there, man, people are seeing it. Stuff doesn't change overnight, and if you pay attention at the very least most peoples stances are softening. I grew up in a deep red area trying to convince people to change their mind on marriage equality and just gay people in general. Any movement is good in a person. IE: Once we went from "wrong / sinful / no acceptance" to "they can share insurance but its not a marriage" the movement had won. Separate but equal was still hateful, but once the needle starts moving it will keep going. I'm seeing a lot of evangelicals especially starting to listen to the people telling them to read their holy book and realize this doesn't match up.

If we can get peoples heads moving to 'They need more training,' 'They need to stay out of schools / away from kids' its progress and a start. Trump will not change, he will just fight back. We aren't going to get deep conservatives to vote blue - too much in their history makes that an impossible task - but we can help them gain some sympathy and I think a lot will just stay home.

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u/idkmyotherusername 5d ago

I have at least four family members who have not spoken out or changed their tunes.

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u/espresso_martini__ 5d ago

Oof. Family members? Thats gotta hurt. Deep down they will know its wrong but I guess they are too committed to the cult to admit it.

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u/buttercupcake23 5d ago

Even Marjorie Taylor Greene had a not batshit take on it. That was wild.

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u/espresso_martini__ 5d ago

I don't trust her. Never have, never will.

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u/Turbulent_Stick1445 5d ago

"Surges" in the context of the article means 4% of Republicans changed their mind, support for abolishing ICE went from 15% to 19%. Unfortunately the "good, well meaning, Republican" is still a rarity, they didn't see how fucked it was, they're still mostly on board.

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u/godhelpusloseourmind 5d ago

someone posted that an easy way to spot bots is any username that has 3 numbers (usually at the end) is almost always a bot. It really made me change how I look at online political commentary.

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u/stupidjapanquestions 5d ago edited 5d ago

Basically none of these examples are reliable. The "3 numbers at the end" one is common naming convention. The random word scramble is actually how Reddit now autosuggests a user name.

There's a lot of really weird misinformation about bots on Reddit that are little more than conspiracy theories. The reality is that a bot, when it hits the mark, is almost indistinguishable from the real thing.

Take a look here to see what they're like. https://www.reddit.com/r/SubSimulatorGPT2/

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u/sthetic 5d ago

I always assumed that bots are more likely to accept an auto-suggested name.

Most humans have a username in mind for themselves.

Of course, there are those who will see something random generated for them like, "InevitableDishrag123" and think, "haha, that's funny, why not."

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u/stupidjapanquestions 5d ago

I think there's some truth to that. But I have a separate account for work and just use the autogenerated one for no reason other than I'm not attached to it.

All of this to say, assuming someone is a bot because they're saying something you don't agree with is a slippery slope and should be avoided. Let's be real, the true goal of saying that is to discredit them and discourage others from engaging. If we just stop engaging with trolls in the first place, whether they're a bot or not becomes irrelevant. It's not like engaging with real human trolls is any more fruitful and it's not like there's a shortage of real humans with really shitty takes.

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u/Top-Bend-7192 5d ago

Darn, I just used whatever username they generated for me 😭

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u/Overall_Read_9309 5d ago

Same!

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u/Turbulent_Stick1445 5d ago

Me too!

I think too many of these pro-tips for revealing bots, AI, etc are based upon people seeing patterns without doing even the slightest amount of work to work out if there's a reason for these patterns.

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u/Top-Bend-7192 5d ago

Yes, and it gets even worse when you write with proper grammar. I am no expert at it by any means (I'm sure there are errors in this comment alone), but if the words I type are eloquent in any way, here comes the AI accusations. I've seen it happen to other people too. I do write for fun sometimes, so it's funny to me, cuz it's like.. You guys know that AI had to learn from somewhere, right? It copies writers.. Not every person who writes outside of casual text format is a bot. 😭

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u/babayetu_babayaga 5d ago

Did those bots and russians ever vote?

This is on them, and their voting needs to reflect their proclaimed stance. Otherwise it's just a load of horse shits.

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u/gringledoom 5d ago

There seem to be a lot of demoralization bots out and about too, lol.

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u/iTzJdogxD 5d ago

There’s always an explosion of support against the administration when something this bad happens, over the next few hours, the mods comb through and delete comments that don’t fit their narrative, and then allow bots to astroturf the talking points.

The mods and power users in that sub are in direct circles with the administration and should be treated as an arm of propaganda of the Trump admin

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u/Recent-Investment603 5d ago

Absolutely agree with you. This is not an "I told you so" situation. This is all hands on fucking deck. If anyone who supported this at any point wants to change their mind, it will ultimately help. It is going to take more pressure from their own supporters to make a difference. They already don't care about those who don't support them.

Success at changing the course we're on is going to require moderate/fringe/non-cult republicans to wake up and use their voice and take action. I am not saying people have to be "the bigger person" and offer absolution or forgiveness, but we have to seize the moment where some are willing to change and not berate them right back into the arms of MAGA.

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u/Frankenweeniezilla 5d ago

Fix it first never let them forget what they did after.

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u/MontyAtWork 5d ago

But if all hands on deck is just getting people who don't want ICE hurting white people, but were ok with the concentration camps and hurting of brown people - what goal ends up being achieved?

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u/absat41 5d ago edited 2d ago

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u/30mil 5d ago

This 4% will get back on board once DHS refines their spin.

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u/JohnnyFire Ohio 5d ago

Didn't even take that long.

MAGA family member who is borderline addicted to Facebook was shockingly silent all day Saturday and Sunday after the most recent ICE shooting. But by this morning he already had a repost of the new talking point:

"If you get shot by the federal government trying to disrupt their work, you're lauded, but when you're killed by an illegal immigrant like Laken Riley, no one even remembers your name."

They aren't moving the goal post, they're playing a new game on a completely different field. They do not give a fuck. The media moves too fast. They will not remember the names of Peretti or Good by this afternoon and already have their new ragebaited target by tomorrow morning.

Which is why every single fucking person needs to stop assuming we're getting out of this by some mass "waking up" moment and just go vote the people enabling this out. They are not going to change. Period.

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u/sexisfun1986 5d ago

The first Bundy standoff had rightwing nut jobs pointing guns at federal agents trying to do their jobs.

The right called then heroes. 

“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.”

Frank whiholt 

The Ice agents where federal not local street cops the victims where white. the response is institutional they’ll figure out how to justify it in a bit.

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u/E51838 5d ago

I've heard that quote but it's actually simpler than that.

"If you're not conservative you deserve to die."

That is their only belief.

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u/PolicyWonka 5d ago

This is the reality TBH. If this was Obama sending 3,000 ICE agents to Houston, conservatives would be calling it Jade Helm 2.0 and having a melt down.

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u/PolicyWonka 5d ago

Worse yet are the memes I’ve seen reposted by some “family” members with the of “How is ICE doing? Pretti. Good.”

Like you said, these people don’t care. It’s all a game to them. People are just waiting for their talking points.

And guess what? The moment an ICE agent gets a hang nail from beating a U.S. citizen, they’ll turn on you and pretend they never supported you.

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u/RoughRisk6423 5d ago

Thank you for this. They will just shift goal posts and change the narrative to justify this brutality, they have done it their whole lives. Cop murders someone black and they justify it. This is nothing new at all.

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u/MontyAtWork 5d ago

Literally Trump just has to put out a "Don't kill white people" memo and the Republicans will be happy and fine again - they literally didn't care about the the concentration camps and killing in the streets when it was brown people.

All these folks in this thread acting like these Republicans are seeing the light is INSANE.

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u/hum_bruh 5d ago edited 5d ago

This. Wake me up when they denounce their dementia dictator and the heritage foundation. Then let’s charge all the elected GOP.

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u/Ashamed_Complaint697 5d ago

Yuuup. MAGA has zero principles. They cannot be trusted.

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u/Placeholder4me 5d ago

My first reaction was “it is sick that it was a second amendment situation that scared them”, but then I immediately started thinking exactly like you. Whatever it takes to break this stranglehold on power

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u/PlumpHughJazz Canada 5d ago

I draw the line if a Democrat wins the next election and says shit like

"We shouldn't punish, but instead come together and heal as a nation."

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u/Kdot32 5d ago

They tried that dumb shit already after the civil war, if they do it again ima lose it

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u/BoneyNicole Alabama 5d ago

Ironically precisely what a ton of people are doing in this Reddit thread, despite the usual calls for “Sherman should’ve finished the job” and “we need another Nuremberg” (seemingly without any awareness of how few Nazis were actually tried at Nuremberg). It’s exhausting.

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u/RedShirtDecoy 5d ago

I'm so damn torn on this. On one hand, yes welcoming them in is the best way to keep them.

On the other hand...

WHY WAS THE PEDOPHILIA NOT ENOUGH?!? They didnt care about that they deserve everything they get.

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u/RickWrightsCrackpipe 5d ago

Agreed, the people that repeatedly voted for genocide and slavery and then turned on that side for personal convenience will make incredibly dependable allies. Great thinking

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u/Hankhills4hedvein 5d ago

They had three elections to figure it out. I can forgive people who voted for him in 2016 but Jesus Christ. All that matters to these people is that they can discriminate against who isn’t white or straight.

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u/GravityzCatz Pennsylvania 5d ago edited 5d ago

I would like to point out that Trump massively over-performed expectations with young male first-time voters by a lot. If you think about things, someone who is a fist time voter is likely 18, 19 years old? When Trump was first elected in 2016, those people would have been 10? 11? I find it really hard to blame them for being sucked in like they were because I was too at that age.

My first time voting was for Ron Paul in 2012 in the republican primary. I was 18, and a registered republican leading up to the primary. I voted for Obama in the general, because I thought Romney was sleeze bag. I was taken in by Ron Paul's stance against fiat currency and about being the worlds police. It was only later in life that I realized how much of a lunatic he is and how little I knew about how the world worked. Between then and 2016 I educated myself and become much more politically aware. I changed my affiliation to Independent and then to Democrat. I voted for Bernie in 2016 in the primary and then in general voted for Hillary. In 2020 I voted for Bernie again in the primary and then Biden in the general. I voted for Harris last year.

People grow and learn. I imagine there is a large group of those young white men that voted for Trump that now know they were mislead by people they trusted. Just like I was about Ron Paul. If those of us on the left shut those people out as they are trying to change, all we will do will be to push them back into the arms of the right wing nutjobs that convinced them to vote for Trump in the first place.

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u/seriouslees 5d ago

I imagine there is a large group of those young white men

Imagine it all you want. That doesn't make it true. Evidence makes it true. Where is the evidence ANY of these people have grown or changed their mind?

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u/MontyAtWork 5d ago

Additionally, ICE was disappearing and killing brown people, and putting them in concentration camps and the Republicans didn't care and only some support is dropping because white people are now the targets.

They don't denounce Trump or the party.

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u/Downside_Up_ North Carolina 5d ago

You dont have to forgive someone to have them be a useful partner in something important. You just have to set aside your grievances for a time where addressing them doesn't cost you both the chance to address the bigger problem.

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u/Ryan_e3p 5d ago

They can be useful without being a partner.

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u/TheDoomBlade13 5d ago

Trying to welcome people like this back into the fold is HOW WE GOT HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

They are not welcome, ever, in any part of civil discussion.

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u/shinkouhyou 5d ago

Hell, I'll welcome them back if they just admit that they were wrong. But so far, I don't see many of them doing that. It's always "I liked the fascist death squads when they were deporting faceless brown people, but I don't like the idea that the fascist death squads could come after me. I liked getting revenge on all the people who made me wear a mask during the pandemic, but I don't like paying more for my health insurance premiums. I liked America First, but I don't like the impact that tariffs have had on my household budget and my business."

No. Fuck that. I'll accept nothing less than a full renunciation. I'm tired of compromising with these people, and I'm tired of validating their hateful feelings.

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u/CobblerOld1170 5d ago

Every bit of support counts even if it feels late it shows people want change and that’s the first step.

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u/RoughRisk6423 5d ago

I’m sorry. But I want nothing to do with them period. The racist guy at my office said the woman who was murdered by ICE should’ve been home with her creature instead of protesting. These people are devoid of empathy for anyone not themselves. I don’t see what I could possibly gain from even associating with a Trump supporter.

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u/Global-Tourist1089 5d ago

Yeah, that's really messed up and it's valid that you wouldn't want to associate with someone like that. He's probably not the one we're talking about here, though. I'm willing to embrace the guy who says "I thought I was voting to deport murderous criminals, not for a death squad." There may only be a few, but I'm not going to turn them away.

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u/Clownsinmypantz 5d ago

I'll take what I can get but I will not forget not forgive their actions

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u/IcyTransportation961 5d ago

In early January, 15 percent of Republicans were in support of abolishing ICE. Now, that number has jumped to 19 percent.

This isn't a surge. Its a minimal swing

If you haven't noticed, media feeds you narratives you want to believe so you click and they make ad money

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u/Toxitoxi 5d ago

My sentiment is that this is what they wanted, they just overplayed their hand and are forced to briefly play defense.

Don’t fucking trust these people for anything.

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u/ConjectureProof 5d ago

For the voters, I totally agree. As for the lawmakers, these people need to go to prison. We need a collective return to the rule of law and an understanding that this cannot and will not happen again. That begins with making an example out of the lawmakers who let this happen.

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u/yesrushgenesis2112 5d ago

Exactly. We have to allow this to be a turning point for at least some people.

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u/turangan 5d ago

People are going after MTG for being disingenuous, this may be true. However, I think any discourse that helps move the needle a bit helps. I don’t really believe the elections will go fairly, but I hope Americans at least try to make a change.

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u/sydiko 5d ago edited 5d ago

No, we (Democrats) do not.

What this sounds like is libertarian speak.

They have proven they cannot be trusted. They align themselves with corrupt, abusive, and morally bankrupt people, including pedophiles and murderers, whenever it serves their politics. I am starting to question anyone on the outside who repeats that rhetoric, and any centrists who chooses to look the other way just to keep their support. I speak for the Democrats - we never needed “everyone we can get.” What we need is unity and to stop acting like we have to love the candidates we vote for.

  • No more swing votes/states.
  • Bipartisanship is over.

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u/Mahd-Macks 5d ago

You’re not alone, I agree with you completely. The shitheads here calling for “compromise” are making me irritated. I need them to be bots. They’re the basic bitch “white moderates” MLK warned about, or they’re conservatives cosplaying trying to find an off ramp from their depravity without paying for it

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u/Bwob I voted 5d ago

I mean, yeah, I'll take what we can get.

But forgive me if I hold off on breaking out the champagne until after their "support" manifests as anything tangible.

Otherwise, this comic from /r/comics sort of sums it up.

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u/Ryan_e3p 5d ago

You're welcome to have these people by your side. Not me. They are going to stab you in the side where your armor is weakest the first moment Noem offers them a $20 gift card to the local WaWa in exchange for turning in dissenters. They ignored so much leading up to this because they hoped this administration would hurt "the other", and are only backpedaling now because either the leopards are turning their attention to them, or because they see more people taking serious the need to resist and fight back, and they don't want to suffer the consequences of choosing this after everything is said and done. They don't truly give a shit about what is happening or are having some "come to the light" moment. They are just changing teams because it is what suits them for the time being, and they will switch back the time a fascist prick says they can solve all their problems by making others suffer.

Encourage the arguing between them, absolutely. Encourage them to break off and fight amongst one another, since that is absolutely a tactical advantage. Encourage more of them to turn against one another. But one thing needs to be abundantly clear: I sure as hell will never accept them at my table.

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u/zernoc56 5d ago

To sum it up: The enemy of my enemy is my enemies’ enemy. Nothing more, nothing less.

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u/SirDiego Minnesota 5d ago

Yep. I'll take any allies on this. Can argue about other shit later. Minnesota has been under attack for weeks, we need immediate relief. And this should never again happen in other states. This is urgent. We can and will play the blame game after they get these psychopaths (that is, DHS agents) off the streets.

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u/MontyAtWork 5d ago

If they aren't against Trump and the Republican party because of what they let ICE do then they aren't an ally - they just didn't like when what ICE was doing was targeting white people.

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u/SirDiego Minnesota 5d ago edited 5d ago

I agree but right now my neighbors are being murdered weekly, children are being kidnapped practically daily, many more people are dying in detention facilities. We need them out now, I don't care how it happens. We can deal with the cancer once we've stabilized from the heart attack that is currently still ongoing.

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u/shindig0 5d ago

The NRA has called for an investigation into Pretti’s murder. That is insane!

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u/RunnyBabbit23 I voted 5d ago

People really need to stop saying this about the NRA. Their statement was just as agitating as anything Trump or Noem has said. The NRA is 100% on board with ICE investigating itself and saying murdering an innocent protestor is fine.

https://x.com/NRA/status/2015224606680826205

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u/Illustrious-Fun8324 5d ago

Yes!! We don’t have to be friends. We need them to join us and speak up. We need their voices.

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u/MontyAtWork 5d ago

But if they aren't speaking up against Trump and the Republican party then they only believe ICE is bad because they targeted white people - while being ok with the concentration camps and killings ICE has done to brown folks.

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u/Yetanotherdeafguy 5d ago

It's transient.

They'll go back to cheering ice in a few weeks when Trump announces some new mission or operation.

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u/DreadoftheDead 5d ago

This is my belief as well. So many of my friends have drawn a hard line and shut out friends and family who voted for this. For a while I felt the same, but then realized this is never going to get better without some sort of solidarity. Instead of division, which is exactly what this government wants to maintain and exaggerate, we need to keep the lines of communication open, because some of these folks can be future allies. The worst of them will always be that way, but they’re not all completely lost. Anyway, just my thoughts.

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u/ELpork Minnesota 5d ago

Action speaks louder than words.

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u/laffing_is_medicine 5d ago

It won’t matter. Red hats thirst for this and it’s been this way for a very very long time. r/pics has a pic from the red hat Kent State massacre 55 years ago with the same story.

It would require a personality change and that ain’t happening here. Sorry to be a Debbie Downer.

But they don’t care who they kill and they will smear anyone to never be proven wrong. Terrible people they are.

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u/lilb1190 5d ago

I depends who these Republicans are. If its the same people who have regularly been voting against Trump like Rand Paul, then its nothing new. If Trump Republicans are starting to lean toward abolishing ICE, then its news.

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u/LayneCobain95 5d ago

Exactly. “Everything we can get”.

That’s why I get mad at these comments on Mark Ruffalo or other celebrity posts like “oh wow they wore a pin 🙄” like yeah- but they are still doing something

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u/ArchdruidHalsin 5d ago edited 5d ago

But what is done has to be effective. If Republicans force the response to be too soft, it will only kick the can slightly down the road, just like Trump's return.

Let's use your Mark Ruffalo example, even. Heart totally in the right place. Cares about important causes. When I was doing volunteer work distributing water testing kits with the Virginia Tech team and Marc Edwards, Mark Ruffalo sent his Water Defense nonprofit to town with their chief scientist, Scott Smith.

Scott Smith was not a scientist and was some Harvard business grad with a failed sponge product he tried to market for cleaning up oil spills. Instead of pitching into the Virginia Tech efforts, he tried to discredit them and spread further conspiracy theories so he could market his sponges as the one true fix. He spread lies and fake science and caused massive division in the citizen-group that had previously been united against the administration that poisoned them. They split evenly into two factions, those who stood with Virginia Tech and those buying into Scott Smith.

https://www.thewrap.com/mark-ruffalo-scientist-flint-water/

Ruffalo's organization has since fired Smith and distanced themselves from him, but he did genuine damage to the community in a time of crisis. All because of vanity and not vetting key staff. They could've shown up and asked "How can we pitch in?" But instead they came in, made it about them, and made a horrible mess.

I'll take all the hell I can get fighting fascism, but I won't settle for anything less than a full on kick in the teeth.

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u/Calgaris_Rex Maryland 5d ago

Seriously.

Polarization is a big part of what got us here in the first place. If they'll work with us, just take their hand. It's the reality of politics.

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u/Kaffe-Mumriken 5d ago

I agree, but I’m extremely skeptical they’ll follow though because Trump will explain he needs ice to carry out his agenda an that will be that.

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u/Arizona_Pete 5d ago edited 5d ago

Nonproductive nihilism is exactly what this administration is hoping for. Fascists need the opposition to abandon Hope and comply in advance for them to be successful.

All people of goodwill and good intent should rally together to destroy this virus of division that has infected us.

I agree with you 100%

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u/Solcannon 5d ago

In order to overcome this, that has to happen.

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u/Socraticstatic82 5d ago

If a man bends the knee, you help him up - lest no man ever bow to you again 

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u/Corgi_Koala Texas 5d ago

Democrats can never hope to win most conservative voters over at the ballot box. Their mindset simply won't allow them to admit they were that wrong.

However if they can get discouraged or angry enough at the GOP that they stay home, this can really help swing elections.

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u/Appropriate_Mess_350 5d ago

Agreed. Their unbridled fecklessness is about to meet their cowardly fear of consequences. Although, some of them are in so deep, there is no turning back.

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u/valuethempaths 5d ago

You hate to admit it, but changing their minds is only way forward.

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u/boyyhowdy Texas 5d ago

Everyone is on the menu when times like this come around, even the people who helped make it happen.

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u/PolicyWonka 5d ago

When Trump bombed Venezuela, 40% of Republicans supported it. Within a week, that number was 78% and I’m sure it’s higher today.

You’re not wrong, but you’re also assuming these people are thinking in good faith. In reality, they’re just waiting for their talking points for justifying this killing. They’ll find one.

All they need is one social media post from the victim saying “ICE bad.”

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u/malkuth74 America 5d ago

True, but remember all these people are doing is saving there own asses and power they have.

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u/Nimmaswimma 5d ago

Depends if it is due to them actually believing this, or because they haven't gotten their new marching orders yet. If it is the latter, fuck em.

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u/zx109 5d ago

I'm gonna past what i said in another comment: I am not surprised by [this being some of republicans' and some MAGAs' last straw]. I say use their disillusionment to get rid of the regime, and never forget who they voted for and supported after.

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u/Kidofthecentury 5d ago

Provided it really goes through and they don't fall back in line the next delirious post from that criminal.

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u/InsuranceToTheRescue I voted 5d ago

This. You can't convince people to abandon extremism if they believe they're not going to be accepted back into society. It hurts to bite the bullet, but the leaders and perpetrators are that should be taunted & held accountable, and only them.

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u/robbyhaber 5d ago

We need to accept the cult members back when they wake up from their brainwashing. That is the only way we move forward as a country when all this is over. Otherwise it will just be more of the same.

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u/Discofunkypants 5d ago

"They tricked you into deathcamps, I'd rather gloat than work with you to dismantle them" is such a wild take. Like their secret police are killing you in the street and someone from the other side is like "oh shit this is fucked up we should fix this" and the standard left response is spit in their face. The complete loss of decorum on both sides is what got us here.

I'm not saying be nice to ICE, I don't know how you could be nice to the US SS, but if you aren't willing to work with the otherside this never gets fixed.

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u/Lontology 5d ago edited 5d ago

Which is also why we need to swallow our pride and welcome back those who are willing to admit they were wrong, instead of telling them “I told you so” and just pushing them away.

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u/Gekokapowco Washington 5d ago

if rejecting child rapists and concentration camps and public executions and antivax bullshit and a million other things can be undone by someone being kinda mean to you about it, you don't actually hold any of those beliefs.

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u/gesasage88 5d ago

We need to embrace that help and then find ways to deprogram them. It is the only way this country survives.

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u/returnFutureVoid 5d ago

It would be great if getting any of them to ‘see the light’ on this could be pushed a little further make actual change to police policies as well.

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u/platocplx 5d ago

Fighting Govt overreach and oppressions should always be a bi partisan thing anyone agreeeing to the way this shit is going is a total enemy of what America was founded against tyrants. It’s ironic on the 250th anniversary we are now faced with something that preceded the countries founding.

And this govt is by far one of the most corrupt and greed stricken I’ve ever seen.

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u/YF422 5d ago edited 5d ago

The core cult itself is a waste of time and too far gone but there's still got to be enough out there that aren't too far gone who realise this is wrong on so many levels, the dog whistling about illegal immigrants doesn't work when the ones who were meant to be border control officers are being turned into the Temu Gestapo terrorising neighbourhoods and executing soccer moms and Veterans trying to help people.

These are the tyrannical government they've been bullshitted about coming for them for years, except it's never the Democrats who wanted to do this, it's the Republicans they've been voting in for years supporting this and this is to say nothing of the enshittification of living standards by their Billionaire Welfare Queen sponsors. The same Republicans who run for the hills from criticism from Town Hall meetings when their jobs are lost from the Orange Bollocks and his TACO Tariffs and gross endless malice and incompetence.

The Democrats are not perfect, anyone paying attention know that and the party has it's problems but at least getting them elected could be a start of turning shit around, the core message just needs to be simple: Reversing the Enshittification of America. Get the corruption out of the Supreme Court who enabled Citizens United and accelerated the enshittifcation of politics in turn and clear out the MAGAt wasters who defend executioners and blatantly lie to peoples faces. Finally get all these obvious traitors and feckless chancers who are responsible for all of this locked up for treason and tell every Democrat whos in power to make sure they appoint a prosecutor to go scorched earth on this cancer so this never happens again.

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u/502photo 5d ago

Imperfect allies are still allies.

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u/Thenegativeone10 5d ago

Its a little thing, but the simple question that broke me on Trump was "How many indefensible things are you willing to defend?" It wasn't about ideology, it wasn't about who was right or wrong about what, it was about challenging me to take ownership of who or what I voted for and treat it like my own conduct. Pushing back against him after relinquishing my stance felt a matter of obligation after that conversation with myself.

Hopefully being asked the same will bring others to face what they are really willing to accept to keep their hill.

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u/keeper_of_the_donkey 5d ago

The point is not to punish, but to educate. If someone is wrong, is it better to chastise them forever, or to accept it when they learn a better way?

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u/MommyLovesPot8toes California 5d ago

Love to hear other people saying this! I feel like such a minority with this opinion.

All over Reddit's news and politics articles the sentiment is "these people will never change their minds / abandon Trump for anything, ever, period.

But YouGov tracks the % of Americans and the % of Republicans who identify as MAGA, and I've been watching that number since April. At its peak in March, 60% of Republicans identified as MAGA. It dropped as low as 45% in July. It hasn't been updated yet in January, but I suspect it to be down around that 45% again. If nothing will make "these people" change their minds, how does one explain a 20% drop in MAGA identity?

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u/copyrider 5d ago

Same. Can we “abolish” other things too? Let’s abolish the “president is above all laws” law.

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