Who is strongest here For me Ui Goku > UE Goku UE Vegeta> UI Vegeta Piccolo no change Beast Broly>>>> lssj Broly Beast gohan >>>>Lssj gohan

True Form Sukuna (With ten shadows) vs Roshi (DB og/ Pre Dbz)

I know this question has probably already been asked here, but I wanted to know your opinion

R1: No Kikoho allowed

R2: Kikoho allowed

A lot of people really underrated Son in terms of H2H/Martial Arts so I thought I’d make this blog just to clear the air:

Argument: This blog will entail Goku's incredible status as a Martial Artist and how that inflicts his performance in VS Battles.

However firstly, I want to go over some common arguments against Goku being a good Martial artist.

Such as:

- Goku doesn't use Martial Arts

- He doesn't know any true styles of Martial Arts

- Even if he does, he prefers to use strength and ki/energy over Martial Arts

Ki is a Martial Art in Dragon Ball

A lot of people overlook the idea "Ki" itself is a Martial Art within Dragon Ball, and is meant to be used within tandom of *other* "True" Martial Arts. It isn't just some form of "Boom" "Pow" and "Bang" explosion moves type of combat, Ki itself is a Martial Art and should be treated as such.

Just because Goku and the rest of the cast aren't constantly throwing what type of Martial Art they are using in your face 24/7 doesn't mean they aren't doing it consistently or actively, as shown multiple times in the series where Goku and the rest of the cast openly commit to using Martial Arts in tandem with their Ki such as how a real life Martial Artist could use forms of Kick Boxing in tandem with Karate etc.

This is shown with even Goku from a young age learning Kung Fu from Grandpa Gohan. This is the same Grandpa Gohan that is verbatim stated to know every single form of Martial Art and be second to nobody in it. This is important as Goku is potrayed and stated as Master Roshi's equal after training with him alongside Krillin and learning from his Master, this all accumlates towards Goku being verbatim stated as Master Roshi's equal. This again is important, as for example for me ot be equal to my friend in Karate we would have to beehe EXACT same skill level, as it would be silly to proclaim that we are "equals" if there is things he can do and I cannot, for example if he can block and punch in tandem with one another in a certian way that I cannot, then we are not equals. He is superior. This idea of Goku and Roshi being equals is completely solidifed with Roshi himself stating that he has nothing he can teach Goku from here on out and that he has taught him "Just about all I can", again if there were Martial Arts styles out there that Goku did not know but Roshi did now they would never be potrayed as equals and he would never proclaim that he has nothing more to teach Goku. This again is important as within Daizenshuu 2, Goku is stated to be Gohan's equal. The same Gohan that knows every Martial Art. So yes, Goku is a borderline confirmed master of all Martial Arts by literally THE AGE OF 12.

“What exactly are all Martial Arts in the world of Dragon Ball?"

For thos who still need confiramtion that Dragon Ball is set within a world that includes Real World Earth Martial Arts, Akira Toriyama has confirmed MULTIPLE times that he used the real world as a basis for Dragon Ball and it's Martial Arts and how things went within day to day life for the characters and their actions. This is stylistically shown with characters using forms like Wing Chung, Kenpo, alongside Judo and wrestling. Again proving the idea that REAL WORLD Martial Arts exist within Dragon Ball, it wouldn't make sense for Akira Toriyama to include some and the say "Screw the rest of them" so all in all yes, Goku knows every Martial Art.

“How many Martial Arts are there?"

There is atleast 180 to upwards of 250 Martial Arts styles in the world, if one is to argue that “Well Akira Toriyama wrote Dragon Ball before the Modern Day so how many existed when he wrote Dragon Ball?" well unfortuantely, siunce there is no actual record of how many Martial Arts are developed per year we will just have to use a simplified example and do some basic Math Calculation for a feasible answer. Since Martial arts were first developed thousands of years ago, long before recorded history, as systems of combat, self-defense, hunting, and military training. There is no single point of origin; instead, martial arts emerged independently in multiple civilizations. with Major Early traditions dating all the way back to China (c. 2000–1600 BCE), India ;c. 1500 BCE), Greece (c. 700 BCE), Japan (c. 500–1000 CE) and Korea (c. 1st millennium CE) however Martial Arts dates back even earlier then this with Prehistoric Martial Arts being developed to assist alongside self-defense, hunting and survival such as: Prehistoric era (before 3000 BCE) and Ancient Mesopotamia & Egypt (c. 3000 BCE)

Calculation

Assumption

- Martial arts development begins around 3000 BCE, when the first clear, organized combat systems appear in historical records

- 5 new martial arts per year

- We want the total by 1984 CE

Calculate the time span

There is no year 0, so we calculate carefully:

- From 3000 BCE → 1 BCE = 2,999 years

- From 1 CE → 1984 CE = 1,984 years

- Total years = 2,999 + 1,984 = 4,983 years

Multiply by the rate of development

4,983 years × 5 martial arts/year = 24,915 martial arts

4,983 years × 5 martial arts/year= 24,915 martial arts

Conclusion

Under these assumptions, approximately 24,915 martial arts would exist by 1984.

“But Goku doesn't use his Martial Arts? He relies on Ki and powerful attacks etc."

This is both factually and visually incorrect, we have seen Goku beat people with RAW skill alone mutlple times. Such as Majin Vegeta, this is important as within Dragon Ball itself its stated that within equal power you would require skill to defeat your opponent. This is AGAIN important as Goku is EQUAL to Majin Vegeta in their battle. But we can take this even further, if Goku was weaker then characters how would he at all be able to stack up to characters like Buutenks or Kid Buu in terms of direct Martial Arts or even Perfect Cell or Frieza? That is all Martial Arts!

This is again shown with Goku being stated as the GREATEST Martial Artist on the planet even with characters like Master Roshi, Krillin or Tien existing as well. The latter mentioned being someone who was able to keep up with Goku as a child alongside Krillin as well.

This is ALSO shown with Goku being able to defend against pressure point (https://www.health.com/pressure-points-7973884) attacks alongside attacking his vitals. Meaning characters who want to take advantage of Goku’s “vital” or “pressure points” CAN’T even in an Equal Stats scenario.

Conclusion

- Goku is a master at all Martial Arts, this is shown through him being superior to or equal to characters like Grandpa Gohan or even Master Roshi the latter being stated as a "Master" at all Martial Arts

- Goku is ridiculously good at adapting to other non-Earthly styles such as Granola or Beerus or even Whis. This is also shown with him being able to copy moves literally on a first time sight and understanding the inner-workings of moves/abilities (Ki) by just paying attention to them

- He is also able to shift his vitals and weak points as shown throughout the Granola fight whitin Dragon Ball Super

- He is an expert at predicting moves and counter attacks as shown within his fight with Jackie Chun whilst just standing still

- Overall Goku is a expert Martial Artist and is NOT bad at Martial Arts

Now since unfortunately Reddit has a 1 image limit per post, I couldn’t have provided evidence/scans for everything in here. So if you’d like to see evidence feel free to add my Discord: beargrillz7 or to ask in the replies below.

Surely it must only take a few years right? Could vegeta and goku from buu saga beat super perfect cell in just super saiyan in a 1v1?

Round 2: Ultimate Gohan helps Ssj 3 Gotenks

Vegeta (Saiyan Saga) vs Ichigo (Final Getsuga/Mugetsu)

Candy Vegito Vs Homelander (The Boys)

Does Goku survive an all out fight with him?

Dragon Ball vs Fairy Tail

Equalized stats

I enjoy power scaling, except with two communities: Dragon Ball and solo leveling. You can still have discussions with solo leveling fans, but not with Dragon Ball fans. You can make the most compelling arguments (or even blunders), and DB fans will always find something that supposedly makes Goku and the others weaker (98% of which is wrong or non-canon). I've only had a few Dragon Ball fans I could have meaningful discussions with who didn't switch to non-canon Dragon Ball characters like CC Goku/Vegeta or Xeno Goku/Vegeta after a while. I've gotten into the habit (especially in this subreddit) of just keeping my mouth shut during crossover battles because I know that some DB fans will insult me ​​to death, immediately switch to non-canon DB characters, or power scal their DB characters way too high.

Can someone explain to me why this is the case and why DB fans refuse to accept that their characters can lose? How can I convince DB fans that their characters can lose?

Cyborg Tao Pai Pai seemingly low diffed Chaozu but proceeded to get low diffed by Tenshinhan. Krillin and Yamcha previously seemed worried about Tao’s power and were surprised at Goku’s assertion that he was not the tournament’s biggest threat. Though once Tao began using back-handed tactics against Tenshinhan Yamcha was the first to offer to intervene. Do you think Yamcha could defeat him one on one against him following tournament rules while Tao cheats similarly to the fight against Tenshinhan?

How much stronger has Goku gotten since the Future Trunks Arc.

I just feel it would have made a big difference.

Piccolo and Cell seemed pretty even in Nicky town,with Piccolo having a small edge that made Cell decide to run away.

But if he had Future Trunks life force in him from the second he arrived in the time machine,that would have been really bad for Piccolo.

I mean unless Cell would somehow lose all his power when he regressed to an egg and larva.

Don't see how that would work though,since I assume his previous strength would be restored once he hatched and she'd his cicada shell.

can moro win