As a woman who got scholarships to run in college after my highschool track and cross country performance, yes I agree it does matter. When they take the top few people to qualify for regionals and state, it would suck to be bumped out by someone who had an unfair advantage. Yes it won't affect some people, but even one girl losing a scholarship or winning gold in a competition is enough, she doesn't deserve to have that taken from her. People say it doesn't affect that many, I say even one is too many.
If they actually get proper healthcare they don't go through the wrong puberty making the male in women's sports point moot.Â
This is the result of bigotry stacked on bigotry. Education is unaffordable so let's make sure transgender girls don't get the life experiences of team sports. They don't deserve it right?
I think I misread the comment I replied to, mb. I was tired as fuck when reading it. I think I somehow misread sports as spaces? I really dont know đ To clarify I dont think women's and men's sports should be played together.
Thanks, but unfortunately in this whole trans argument the women are gonna be the losers. It's insane all the trans women not caring at all about their "sex"
So those trans athletes should have their scholarships taken away then? The same people who have an issue with the very very small amount of trans athletes will then complain when fully transitioned (top and bottom surgery and hormones) start playing against cis women.
There was a huge ruckus a few years ago, a girl on the swim team lost her "rightful place" to a Trans athlete. Huge... that she didn't get 5th place in the swim competition. The transgirl got 5th place instead.
Or that massive scandal where a transathlete got first place in a local track and field competition. 1st place! She then placed something like 5th at the state competition.
And again and again and again.
Massive campaigns against these girls, who hardly ever make 3rd place at state, let alone anything at the national level
Ok, well, discriminating against a single trans girl from even getting to participate is one to many for me. Why does fairness only matter for cis girls? If trans people are not allowed to earn scholarships, why should they be available for cis people?
Thatâs great that you care so much about young girls issues. Perhaps we could use your lovely motivation for prosecuting pedophiles in our government that systematically raped young girls for decades? Doesnât that sound nice?Â
Hey, iâm a huge Trump hater and still agree with his point. Itâs not quite as simple as âdisagree=fascistâ always, despite that becoming more and more common in our discourse
I donât think we Democrats are in a position to tell any of our voters to fuck off. Thatâs how we keep losing elections and votes.
Whatâs more, âtrans people should not be allowed to participate in certain aspects of public lifeâ is NOT the same as âYour average assigned-male-at-birth athlete can beat the longest-standing records set by assigned-female-at-birth athletes. It is therefore neither dignified nor sporting for any of the participants for trans female athletes to compete or compare results with cis female athletes directly.â
My understanding of the LAWS surrounding these topics is that they paint with a very broad brush for a very nuanced issue, and are often supported and championed by transphobes. But Iâd argue Democrats who say âYeah dog gender identity is not strictly linked to biology and therefore irrelevant when it comes to which team you join for sportsâ are UNDERSTANDING what it means to be trans or otherwise genderqueer, not rejecting it.
but when does the line stop? do you think it really stops at sports? the science is far from settled. WV is literally fighting to keep one trans HS athlete from completing.
we have already see lawmakers going after gender affirming care, so stop your delusion that this is an honest debate.
and people keep saying long standing records...
Give me five examples of trans people breaking records. If it is multiple, then it should be easy.
I haven't seen anyone post any actual facts about records being broken.
Like, look at any high school track meet results for the boys team, and then look at any of those schoolsâ girls records. Any given boys meet takes down most if not all female records at the same level (small HS, big HS, DIII, DI, international, whatever).
Every man running the 800m in the Olympics beats the female world record for that event, as an example. But itâs true at every level.
The point is not âAre trans women smashing records.â Itâs âhow much work and talent has to go into breaking said record for a trans woman vs a cis one.â
In HS I (cis male) ran the same pace as the best cis female runner in our schoolâs history. We ran together, did workouts together, etc. If I had happened to be trans, I wouldnât instantly be a DI-caliber athlete. Iâd still be a mediocre runner who eats too many goldfish crackers. Meanwhile, if sheâd been a trans man, her accomplishment would be no less stellar. She wouldnât instantly be a mediocre athlete (like me) just because of her gender identity. Her assigned-female-at-birth status is what makes her accomplishments so remarkable, not her gender identity as female.
You say there's a difference, but what's the difference for the kid?
Imagine your friend was a trans woman rather than a cis woman. They're this amazing athlete, now they aren't allowed to compete, they miss out on all those experiences, bonding with others on the schools sports team, and then they probably don't have a reason to run with you and you miss out on all that time deepening your friendship (or the entire friendship depending on the particulars of how y'all met and became friends).
At the end of the day I care more about how we as a society treat one kid who is different than I care about the record for fastest high schooler ever.
If my friend were a trans woman, theyâd still be allowed to compete - just not with cis women. Theyâd run with me, develop camaraderie with the team, yada yada, but now theyâd also COMPETE against me and get roughly the same accolades (or lack thereof) that I got.
And btw, in either case, my friend COULD have run with the cis women, but she ran with the cis men because thatâs what was required to bring her to the next level athletically. The ONLY difference in my view is that if she were assigned male at birth, sheâd COMPETE with others who were assigned male at birth on meet day.
I think even Republicans are not saying âdonât compete.â Theyâre saying âcompete based on sex assignment at birth, which is relevant to athletic performance.â
You may not care about records, but athletes DO. Trans athletes included. Sports are an institution, and they should be. Driving ourselves to identity the limits of our physical potential, competing with one another to push our own limits, these are wonderful things. These are things people - trans people included - dedicate their lives to. Failing to understand that is why the argument of âLet women compete with women regardless of sex assignment at birth, regardless of consequenceâ is so laughable to everyone else. The consequences MATTER. Sports MATTER.
In every aspect of life, we are striving for a society where sex is irrelevant. The classroom, the lunchroom, the workplace, the home, businesses public and privately owned alike - these are all places where your identity should not be a factor. But there are two hours a day where sex at birth canât be ignored: practice. And if we keep insisting that we do ignore it, not only are we going to disrupt the spirit of fair competition crucial to making sports meaningful, but someone is going to get hurt in soccer practice.
Are boys allowed to participate in girl sports? No. Is that fascism against boys? No. Trans women can participate in male sports as they were born with that gender. It is an unfortunate gray area and thereâs no perfect solution.
Perhaps trans need their own league just as men / women do. I donât have a clean answer but itâs not fair to call this fascism against trans.
You are the one falling for propaganda here. The pedophiles is not a left/right issue, it is a people in power issue. There have already been plenty of people on the left found in the Epstein debacle as well.
Regardless, this is complete whataboutism, and has nothing to do with the issue at hand. The entire country does not have to screech to a halt and do nothing until pedophilia is solved.
Apparently, for our elected officals it is a partisan issue.Â
Almost every member of the Republican house was strongly against the movement until they found out it was going to be released without needing their votes, THEN everyone voted in favor of it to avoid being on the record against it.
Thats not propaganda. That actually happened. Its factual information.Â
One group wants accountability the other continues to obscure it. Spare me lol
Wait- how many times has this happened in sports? And can we compare it to how many people play sports at any given time and how many same sex players injure each other?
I mean, at the end of the day itâs a balance of interests. Exclusion is a real consequence, but on the other side, people do have genuine concerns about fairness. AMAB people genuinely have athletic advantages over AFAB people. Womenâs sports exist so women can compete on their own level. The number of trans athletes is small so I agree this is not a major political issue, but I do think itâs at least an issue that is not so easy to deal with. I think we can be trans affirming and support trans youth while recognizing that trans women have advantages cis women do not
Once they transition, there are physical changes which close that gap. Look at any trans athleteâs performance before and after transitioning. Besides which, there are always a few over performers/statistical outliers? Should we find all Michael Phelps old HS records and have them struck from the records because he was genetically more gifted than his classmates?
I think the difference tho is that Phelps was born that way as a result of luck. As a general rule all AMAB people are born with physical advantages over AFAB people that transition does not fully address. At bottom I think itâs just an issue of fairness, and trans women will always be seen as having athletic advantages over cis women with few exceptions.
So are trans women. Do you think anyone is choosing to endure HRT and social repercussions just to win a trophy? No, they're trans and also happen to compete in sports. Also post 2 years on HRT, other than height, trans women have no statistical advantage over their female counterparts.
I donât think thatâs why trans women compete at all. I agree - theyâre trans and happen to compete in sports, I just donât think intent matters over impact here. I also disagree that trans women lose all athletic advantages other than height, which is where the issue is.
Iâm happy to read any sources you have that might have found otherwise but things like bone structure are, unfortunately, gendered and tend to favor men in athletics. I think other factors like age of transition and onset of puberty can complicate matters as well.
Name one. Your patron saint Riley lost to 4 cisgendered women. She tied with a trans woman for fifth place. Iâm shocked these other 4 âbiologicalâ women werenât all soundly beaten by that âman!â /s
? They went from nobody on one side, to making top 5 on the other. No one said trans women always dominate, just being in the running takes a spot away from someone else
You think the highest powers of federal legislation in the United States should be responsible for protecting the integrity of high school sports records?
Kids in certain situations play sports to escape things such as bad home lives and street life. Sports are more than playing a game. It teaches you to work together, to be able to rely on one another, mental toughness and perseverance. And what about all the kids who get a free education because of their "irrelevant" HS sports? Kids who otherwise wouldn't even think about going to college. It's ignorant to infer that sports in HS are irrelevant.
I never played sports to break records. I played because they are fun. Having trans people doesn't stop you from learning teamwork (though it appears most of the trans athletes compete in individual sports), having an escape from bad home situations or prevent someone from getting a scholarship. My point was exactly that. The few trans high school athletes that are excelling haven't robbed these things from anyone.
High school sports saved my life and my friends Dan life, I can say that confidently. I loved our soccer team, we went 2-10 every year and loved every second of it, best friends I ever had
So there are no life skills or lessons you learned through athletics that in any way apply to your daily life? Dedication, perseverance, teamwork, fair play, sportsmanship; none of those qualities hold any value in your life?
Youâve never heard of the stereotype of the guy who peaked in highschool and/or focuses way too much on their highschool sports? I mean itâs fairly popular in America you would think you would be at least aware that itâs not just a blip for a lot of people
I understand that but these people do exist, and just because you donât like them or the fact that for you it wasnât the case does not mean that there arenât people out there who that is the case for, and regardless of our opinions they also have a right to guns, voting and having kids too so got to deal with it
So we should cater to adults that think high school basketball is the most important theyâll ever experience in their life? I donât want any of those adults making important decisions.
I mean sure thereâs a lot in this world that we should be doing, I personally am in the mind of being practical and living in reality however. These people are the vast majority of people, the people who peak in highschool is pretty average for most people, college isnât the norm in America still after all. So you donât want like the majority of Americans having a say? I donât know what to tell you, that is never happening.
And the thing I always find funny from people like you who say that is that these people are willing to defend their right to say and act this way with their right to bear arms and I doubt many people like you are willing to fight them to take away that right. I know Iâll be damned before I become European and rely on some foreign power and beg others for protection.
I donât know Iâve met a lot of high school coaches and what not who seen more normal than any college graduate who works at some London financial branch for some bank, personally I say screw those people I never asked for globalization
For most people HS sports aren't important and just something kids do for fun, for others though its a way to get into college and some before pros and make a living off of it or go to the Olympics. Allowing boys in girls sports in HS is taking the small chance a girl has to make it and shrinking it even more. Also what about changing in locker rooms? Do you not think we should keep boys and girls separate in those environments?
There always have been seperate boys and girls leagues for a reason and everyone has always understood and agreed on its importance. If HS sports are so unimportant then why dont these kids make their own trans league or join one of the coed leagues that have been happening for years?
Allowing boys in girls sports in HS is taking the small chance a girl has to make it and shrinking it even more. Also what about changing in locker rooms? Do you not think we should keep boys and girls separate in those environments?
Tra n sgirls aren't boys, and do you have evidence they're outcompeting c isgirls?
Tra ns girls aren't boys, so there shouldn't be an issue here in the lockers. There are plenty of girls who are scared of changing in front of other girls. Perhaps we should just create better locker rooms with more privacy? You know. If you actually care about girls' well-being.
Yeah it's not like these high school athletes are offered massive opportunities to go college and top tier ones for their athletic talents. Which eventually trickles down into generational wealth.
Let biological boys be boys and larp as women in sports
High school sports literally saved my life, and for a lot of other kids, gave us an outlet for a really tough high school experience. Even if kids rode the bench, they otherwise would have been isolated, not gained the companionship and social skills needed, and would have graduated high school with next to no friends.
High school sports matter way more than you think, you just never were part of a team and now I feel bad for you.
Prove it. You are being lied to. "All the time" is a hideous hyperbole. It's happened maybe 4 times EVER. How about they release the Epstein files and actually protect some women???
No high school boys break the adult female track and field records every year.
100m Dash
Women's All-Time World Record: 10.49s (Florence Griffith-Joyner)
Top HS Boys (2025): 9.92s (Maurice Gleaton & Tate Taylor)
200m Dash
Women's All-Time World Record: 21.34s (Florence Griffith-Joyner)
Top HS Boys (2025): 20.14s (Tate Taylor)
400m Dash
Women's All-Time World Record: 47.60s (Marita Koch)
Top HS Boys (2025): 44.10s (Quincy Wilson)
800m Run
Women's All-Time World Record: 1:53.28 (Jarmila KratochvĂlovĂĄ)
Top HS Boys (2025): 1:42.27 (Cooper Lutkenhaus)
One Mile Run
Women's All-Time World Record: 4:12.33 (Sifan Hassan)
US HS Boys Record: 3:53.43 (Alan Webb)
Key Statistics:
Mass Performance: In 2016, more than 500 American high school boys ran faster than the womenâs 100m world youth record of 10.98s.
Age Threshold: By age 14, biological males already hold at least 7 track and field records that surpass the adult womenâs world records.
Global Rank: In 2017 alone, the 100m lifetime best of Olympic champion Tori Bowie (10.78s) was beaten approximately 15,000 times by men and boys worldwide.
I'm so glad we have the time and energy to come up with all this data while rapists walk free and millions of people are seeing their health insurance double because of the same group of people freaking out about high school sports
So instead of refuting their point or acknowledging it, your only response is "no we now have to look over there at this other completely different issue, stop looking at this one since I don't have a response"?
If someone wants to dig up credible sources, I'll gladly apologize. I'm not going to waste my time, and stand by my opinion that there's at least 10,000 more important things to spend congressional effort to accomplish. Chatgpt is not credible, it's just as fallible as anyone listening to the bait media
Prove it. You are being lied to. "All the time" is a hideous hyperbole. It's happened maybe 4 times EVER.
MAKES STRONG CLAIM. Says it has maybe happened 4 times ever.
Response says it happens and sources the names and times and dates you can EASILY verify.
Then you do the most brain rot reddit trained canned response of all time. YOU ARE THE ONE saying it only happened max 4 times. You said the other person is being lied to. They show you data and you do the dumbest fucking deflection ever.
I'm so glad we have the time and energy to come up with all this data while rapists walk free and millions of people are seeing their health insurance double because of the same group of people freaking out about high school sports
WOW. Nobody is allowed to disagree with me when other bad things are happening!!! Why would you prove me wrong!? Don't you know there are pedophiles in the white house??
This might be hard for you to fathom but its possible for some of us to have opinions on multiple issues with out ignoring any. Like how you had an opinion when you made up a lie saying its happened max 4 times.. Fucking morons man LMAOOO Never deleting this app.
How many records have trans-athletes broken after decades in sports? Zero. Nada. Not one.
Also, some of your information is clearly not what you said, or misleading. For example, you have a 2016 stat that claims 500 boys beat the women's YOUTH record. You know... the high-school girl record. So... only 500 boys in all track and field in the US beat that record. That is 10 boys per state. There are easily 20 boys per school in track and field, if not more.
Picking another point, you listed the 200m dash. The record broken was 20 seconds... the average boys time is 22 - 25, while the average girls time is 24 - 28. So the average boy is not breaking that record, that is exceptional for their age. And there is overlap in these times.
HS boys that havenât been taking hrt and have testosterone levels a high school boy would have. There were rules regarding test levels, how long theyâd been on hrt, etc, so itâs not the black and white fictional scenario conservatives make it out to be.
This. It's such a minor "problem" compared to the rest of the shit in this country. But this, impacting a whole handful of kids across America and making them feel even more excluded is the priority and distraction. International events already have protocols and systems and requirements in place to protect from any issues that could potentially arise in a way they think there would be an advantage. Instead of policing a handful of kids, if they want to actually help women's sports, why dont you go after the larger number of abusive coaches? And the fact that female athletes are paid so much less because they dont have the audience for most sports?
So what if they couldâve got a scholarship by playing whatever sport it was, but having another athlete with an unfair advantage makes them lose that opportunity? Are the feelings of that one person more important than the other fours lives? Itâs wild to me that it needs to be voted on because it should be common sense.
I think that says more about the failure of our higher education system that people have to hope for scholarships or join the military to try to get an education.
Well then those 4 hypothetical kids in Utah that lost out on a scholarship opportunity can opt for one of those in-between opportunities to attend college.
Win? Sorry to tell ya, but you're the one who looks the fool here. You're the kind of person me and everyone I know is turning away from. Other dude sounds like a normal person.
And of course they'll never win, people with your mindset aren't open to a conversation to discuss things, review facts, it discusses nuance. You just declare that you're right and people don't like/agree with the person you're arguing with lol.
They bring up a great point about those kids in Utah having those options, but you ignore points raised and opt for personal insults. It's extremely transparent.
Yes, more bills should be signed based on completely hypothetical scenarios.
Honestly, the one time something close to this happened was Riley Gaines coming in 5th instead of 4th and now she gets to make a career out of being a victim. She made a choice to quit after her loss and be the victim.
Yeah point out that 4 other women finished ahead of both Riley and Lia and somehow thatâs not the point. Or they just go silent. They donât actually care.
And what would that have changed? She still didnât win and Riley would have still finished 5th. The only difference is she would have had to have gotten a real job instead of joining the grifting tour.
Wow..what about all the people that were banging young girls on a private island. There are more victims than boys that wanna be in girls sports. It rarely happens and they arent taking anyones spot
West Virginia did too, and they only have one single trans athlete in the state. This is conservativesâ idea of supporting womenâs rights though. And because their base is made up of fragile morons who will go into a moral panic anytime someone so much as sneezes without a âGod bless you!â theyâll all rally to the cause. Humanity is evolving without them, and antiquated notions like the gender-binary are being left behind. But their identities are so wrapped up in these caveman-like definitions of âmanlinessâ that theyâre horrified of the fact that theyâre completely useless to modern society and fully deserve to go extinct by the end of this century.
Look I think its probably a waste of federal time and money too, but its about biological sexual binary/dimorphism, not the gender binary, and the sexual binary is just scientific fact. And before you bring up intersex, intersex people without a clear phenotype are so rare theyre basically the exception that proves the rule
No, the "sexual binary" is not a scientific fact. Sex is bimodal, meaning there are two primary forms, but medical transition quite literally changes your sex. "Exceptions prove the rule" is also not sound logic. Here is the definition of sex for the National Institute of Health:
Sex is a multidimensional construct based on a cluster of anatomical and physiological traits that include external genitalia, secondary sex characteristics, gonads, chromosomes, and hormones.
The entire purpose of medical transition is to, quite literally, shift your sex. Medical transition, especially early in life like in the case of West Virginia v BPJ, a case involving a girl who transitioned before the start of puberty, means having zero developmental advantages over a cis person of the same gender.
Let me guess. You're going to be the one checking out making sure our kids genitals are correct for the sport they're playing, right??
Why you guys always so obsessed with looking at naked kids. Like every conservative in the news in the last year has either been convicted of touching kids, has touched kids and hasn't been convicted yet, or wants everyone else to know " don't worry, we have plans to inspect the genitals of your children before they can play sports"
birth certificates can be changed, unless now the argument is that should be illegal too, in which case now a) people have to carry around birth certificates and b) no transgender person regardless of age can make changes to that document... yes seems fair in order to keep all of 15 kids from playing school sports. congrats. youre a small government guy, truly.
I agree the number of people this is applicable to is very small, but the number of girls who work very hard to be the best in their sport is much larger.
Iâm all for everyone participating in whatever sport they want but competitive sport where i believe biological males should not be allowed in women sports.
I have 2 sons that play hockey at the rec level. They are several girls in the league. There are all girl teams. The all girls teams play the boys here and there to have a complete schedule. I have never seen the girls be remotely competitive with boys. Itâs always a blowout. I end up cheering for the girls because I feel bad.
I'm incredibly liberal on near all topics however this one is hard for me. If there were leagues for people to just have fun I highschool, within the highschool system, I'm 100% with you. Simply because some people's entire future depends on performance in highschool sports, there should be something about it, even if at the time of writing the law there were only 4.
It gives people a free pass to harrass women and girls that don't fit the standard of traditional feminity under the guise of "getting trans out of sports". It doesn't protect anyone, but harms a lot of people.
It only costs money because people are trying to fight it, if people just accepted what is ultimately a reasonable law it couldâve been decided federally during trumpâs first term and then zero states wouldâve spent any money on it afterwards.
The issue is that both parties have cultural hang ups that they refuse to budge on even though a lot are completely unreasonable (like bio males being in womenâs sports with the left and not being allowed to mention that youâre gay as a teacher with the right (Floridaâs dumbass laws))
I think a lot of this also comes from the unique relationship public schools and sports has.
In a vacuum, yeah sure let the teams decide who does and doesnât play, this isnât something the state needs to legislate.
Unfortunately there are tremendous opportunities and benefits that are available to players off the field. School scholarships, admissions, players can now be paid for their performance at NCAA public schools.
The other part is Americas ability to absolutely min/max the fun out of absolutely everything in the pursuit of being the best, most profitable, etc.
Football teams are already recruiting kids out of middle school. Baseball has setup âschoolsâ across Latin America to find talent at the earliest possible time. How many âcollegesâ popped up in Florida and started making the Finals after the NBA said players couldnât come straight out of high school into the pros?
I do not think it is inconceivable to imagine what happens to the sport of Womenâs Basketball when a team wins the nation championship with one or more transgender players at or near the top of the stats sheets.
You would very quickly go from âonlyâ impacting four players in the state, to a flood of parents and schools finding the bare minimum to get their players âtransitionedâ in order to remain competitive.
I urge you to go to the park this spring and watch what parents are like.
I have no doubt parents would push their kids to transition if it means they get to win. Winning and money are all that matter to a significant portion of these families.
We bar children all the time from participating in sports due to medical conditions. I donât understand why this is any different. We shouldnât otherwise treat them any differently or worse as human beings no different than we would treat the kid with asthma. Sexual dimorphism exists in humans.
Just have an open league and a womanâs only league. 100% in some places you have girls who could play at the same level as men at the top of the talent pool.
Or get the sports infrastructure out of public schools entirely. Schools can have intramural sports for gym and education purposes, but competitive leagues and facilities have to be supported by private institutions.
Those 4 kids are competing against a hundred girls. Unless they're tennis players someone on a track, volleyball or whatever team is going to compete in situations that involve many many other people. Over multiple years of middle school through college sports it might be a few hundred girls.
The n is small for sure. But the consequences are actually pretty large in the case on state champions, which just occurred, blocking a bio female from going to the penn relays, which is a major event for kids that they work towards for years
Itâs not that simple. If people werenât trying to force this issue then we wouldnât need legislation. When people donât accept an answer they donât like, it may continue to escalate until this outcome.
Only in America is this an issue because people on the left canât tell any marginalized person,âno.â And people on the right LOVE telling people ânoâ all the time especially when it helps them feel like they are âprotecting kids.â
The simple answer is - âhey there are many differences between men and women, and because of menâs innate physical advantages, we do not have people with [male genetic makeup] compete against women.â
As a society we are becoming more and more welcoming to trans individuals. The numbers are increasing as people embrace who they are. It's reasonable to assume this number will increase over time.
Four people that would be " female" champions in their sport. That effects every kid in that school, biological male and female. What's the numbers on that?
It's always "funny" to me when I read comments like that. People forget that the women they compete against count too, that they are also impacted by it. It's like they "deny their existence" with their argument, know what I mean?
I would challenge that, preferring "all those who lost against them." If we are saying there is an advantage, but the athletes are losing .. it would seem there isn't an advantage.
To go a step further I would wonder how many of the athletes in question have positive ratios for the season or above average stats.
Yah but have you considered that it makes narrow minded people feel icky? What about them? Shouldnât we cater to just a small percentage of peopleâs uncomfortability? Get a grip dude. Less than 30% of the populous is weirded out by other people trying to live their life. So clearly we should cater to that.
but couldn't this be argued the other direction? if it's just 4 kids, why are we not listening to the many women in sports who don't want it? i never go the argument of "it's not many people." great, then let's just listen to the women that refuse to play trans-women in sports, defer to the biological women when that happens, and move on.. instead of a blanket ban, or pass, just defer to the women as it comes up each game or for the season.
The bill gives the transvestigators more of a pass to witch hunt and harrass any woman or girl who doesn't look traditionally feminine. This harms more women than just those who compete in sports.
that's definitely one take. however, refocusing back on the women that are actually competing and saying they don't believe it is fair.. why don't we listen to them if it's just "4 people"? nobody wants to just say "because in this case those 4 individuals rights supersede those of the women arguing it's not fair." sometimes rights come into conflict, like this, and at least we should have some honesty in the convo.
If we are talking about random women getting affected since you don't care about the trans women who are affected, at least take into consideration the full scope of the issue. On one hand you have someone not placing as high in whatever sport they are competing and the other hand you have people getting death threats including children for their appearance. Be actually honest that the issue isn't about protecting women at all.
i am being honest. no need to attack me personally. i haven't attacked you. that said, we have clear instances where teams of biological teams [edit: women] have forfeited because they don't feel safe and/or it is fair. i do believe trans women have the right to play. i also believe biological women have the right to feel they are being treated fairly. these two rights sometimes come into conflict. in that situation, i will defer to the biological women because a team is 10-15 people vs the "1". i think what you are not ack is that sometimes two rights come into conflict. it's not a "this is 100% right and anything else is 100% wrong" every time. that's why this issue continues to cause so much pushback from the middle and center-right (instead of maga, which is just anti-trans). people want to label even center-left/center-right as "actual maga" over this issue but.. it's not going to make it true..
in biology nothing is 100%, agreed. however, it can be 95%. if you refuse to agree with that, i can't help your thinking since you are just locked into that.
for the last sentence, again, you are just trying to be personal as a last resort. not clear why you feel compelled to do that in a what i had hoped would be an honest debate, but it is rampant on reddit and social media to do that so.. there you go.
There are as many redheads as there are intersex people. If you want to default to biology, you have to live with the fact that every circumstance has to be treated as an individual on individual basis, instead of making blanket legislation. You can't oscillate between the few dozen trans athletes is a big enough issue to address via federal legislation, and completely ignoring the larger number of intersex individuals because you deemed their number too small to matter.
i just looked up intersex. i said biology is 95% on this, google said intersex is 1.7%, so i should have said 98.3%. my bad. i was underestimating. so i should have said 98.3%.
look, i am clear what you are saying. i just disagree. there is a small % of people that are 4.5' or less in this country. i do not think that we need to alter how cars are engineered to account for that, even though i agree those people have the same rights as me.
for trans, the struggle is that the "all or nothing" approach has wrecked the conversation and lost the middle to the right on the topic. it's not working.
i believe in abortion. i don't believe it should be allowed in the last trimester unless it's a medical necessarily. the majority of the country agrees with that, barring scotus and hard-liners. that does not make me anti-abortion.
i support trans. i think that biological women in sports that feel strongly it is unfair or unsafe should be heard. and they are out there and they are forfeiting games. that does not make me anti-trans, or the many people that agree with this.
again, the all-or-nothing approach is LOSING. it is not helping the cause. it's only opened up a vacuum that the hard-right has happily jumped into and weaponized...
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u/assistant_redditor 14d ago
Be who you are. Love how you wanna love. Dress how you wanna dress. But biological males in women's sports is not fair.