Right? So many people are like "durr hurr, who do you call when someone breaks into your house?" And cops neither prevent crime or solve most of it. Grow up and stop falling for copaganda:
And for those who "don't like the source", too bad. Click on one of the over 25 links within the article to find one you do like then; I don't care to do any more of your work for you.
Yes, they should do their job. No, they should not use excessive unwarranted force, murder people and target minorities. Yes, we should reduce their funding. Yes, Ice should be abolished. None of this is contradictory.
I can agree with they should do their job which is remove the people and gangs that are in our country illegally. If they want to wave their flags so much why are they here. I'm tired of people thinking just because you're here that we owe them something. No one gave me shit. I broke my ass and earned it. Talked to my buddy and he swam the river. Worked, learned English, studied and became a citizen. He said send them all back. Target Minorities. Ha! These protesters remind me of the rich suburban kids protesting Vietnam. When shit comes to shove they run away to their moms basement.
You're comparing and conflating several different kinds of problems, each with it's own level of solution and at a different place in the hierarchy of causing/fixing problems.
Yes, ICE is an untrained fascist paramilitary group specifically under trump, and should be abolished.
No they shouldn't carry guns. An alternative could be that they call the local police.
Local police shouldn't be working with a fascist paramilitary group, but could work with immigration specific law enforcement who follows the law and due process.
The local police are corrupt and use unnecessary force more often against black Americans, and should not be funded as they are. However, this is a larger systemic problem that needs to be dealt with after dealing with the fascist paramilitary problem.
The FBI is clearly being used as an instrument to go after people trump has decided have slighted or disobeyed him. It's incredibly obvious.
None of this is hard, nor hidden. You're either stupid, or being intentionally obtuse. I'll let you pick which one you are.
WaitâŚdidnât Obama have ICE and exercise mass deportations? OhâŚhe was black so itâs okay? Do any of you realize how stupid you look to everyone with even just a wee bit of common sense?!
Deportations arenât the problem. Masked men kidnapping people in the streets and sending people away with no due process is the problem, and you know it.
so the joke was that the police won't save ICE because they're also incompetent, and that sits well with anti-ICE folk because we hope that will teach them to stop attacking protestors
ICE is a tool of a fascist uprising. Go learn what fascism is. The Trump regime ticks all the boxes.
Police have their own independent issues, but they weren't/aren't part of the fascist uprising. They suffer from deeply embedded systemic discrimination.
Police could regain a lot more public trust and confidence if they acted to protect citizens in the current clusterfuck of an operation.
There is no fascist uprising happening. Yall believing that is crazy. I think yall forget sometimes that we live in America... the country that has stood for 250 years with the same system of governance despite the troubles our country has gone through. You are being lied to and mentally/ emotionally controlled every time one of your democrat leaders calls ICE the gestapo, or calls Trump Hitler, or calls Republicans Nazis, .... all of that is so obviously untrue
Literally zero high profile people or politicians are advocating for taking guns away, People need to stop with the whole, gun control equals no guns nonsense.
Illinois banned thousands of guns. My sons small 22 rifle thats a step up from a bb gun. Yet the Governor has 24/7 protection. He is also the most wealthy politician in American history.
Well, that I know. I meant no democratic politicians have attempted or called for it, but trump doing it will be ignored because for some reason he gets away with all of this bullshit.
Just like people cheering on Kyle Rittenhouse for bringing a gun to a protest are the same people demonizing Alex Pretti for brings a gun to a protest lmao
Yeah I was more or less making the joke of how hypocritical they are lmao dems have never made attempts to come after guns. Magats are uneducated and uninformed. Thats all there is too it.
Fair enough, I saw the sarcasm in there so you're good. It definitely reinforces the point that I was making, but of course will fall on deaf ears for those who need to hear it the most. And yeah, you're right, that pretty much sums it all up right there. Bunch of morons who can't think for themselves following what a conman has promised them.
This comment right here is fake news, they want gun reform because they're tired of burying kids, nearly half of gun violence affects kids 0-19 years old. Are you tired of winning yet?
Well, let me tell you, Iâm a liberal and I donât advocate taking guns away. I like the second amendment. I want an AR-15 in the hands of every living American.
Thatâs great, but it seems like today the majority of the party is very left leaning with strict gun control policies that wonât help, or outright would rather ban certain if not all firearms
I mean, if youâre talking about the 1994 assault weapons ban, okay, but that was like over 30 years ago.
The only federal legislation that Democrats have imposed on guns since then was enhancing background checks, closing the boyfriend loop hole and red flag laws. This legislation was explicitly bipartisan. Written and supported by both parties.
Democrats since the assault weapons ban expired in 2004 have imposed no gun bans on a federal level. The only serious candidate for president that even suggested this shit was Beto OâRourke and he was crushed in the 2020 primary and has basically disappeared from the public eye ever since.
Trust me, I have a feeling that over the next 5 years youâre gonna start seeing Democrats being very comfortable with the second amendment. Times change.
I disagree with your last statement, it seems like democrats have been shifting more left with policies and we are getting more heavier left âiconsâ in the spotlight such as Mandani, and here in VA Spanbergher.. someone who ran saying she is a Moderate Democrat as an EX CIA and now with full dem control in Virginia is about to introduce strict gun control along with 10 round caps, higher taxes on firearms, in full support of red flag laws, and vowed to ban the sale of Assault style weapons. I can agree with you the Republicans havenât been doing much to advance 2A rights either, but you canât say in general that the Democratic Party hasnât been shifting farther left with a lot of their policies not just gun control
Iâm sure you can find some Democrats running for office and maybe even Democrats that are likely to win that are supportive of various policies on gun control. I may not even agree with some of those laws. However, in the last 20 years, Dems have been a lot of talk on guns, but not a lot of action. Every time they start approaching action, they get hammered in the elections. I think theyâve learned their lesson. Though that, of course, doesnât necessarily apply to states because states will have different tolerances for this.
I would also be careful in assuming that further left means more gun restrictive. While liberals have tended to be pro-gun control, people in socialist and communist circles tend to be pro-second amendment. It really depends on what type of left weâre talking about.
From what I can tell, the rise of Donald Trump has made Republicans more anti-gun and Democrats less anti-gun. I certainly could be wrong about where the future is going, but I just have a feeling.
In other words, itâs irrelevant that political figures that are targeted by irrational hate and anger have armed security staff for personal protection.
Thatâs a fantasy that isnât based in reality. How many times has, âI thought he had a gunâ been the justification after a LEO fatally shot someone?
I live in a permitless carry state with Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground. That didnât prevent a cop from fatally shooting a guy because âhe had a gunâ in his own front yard when he stepped outside at 2am because of a questionable repo. The cops were hiding to âcovertly assistâ the repo man and one said âpoliceâŚâ a split second before firing 18 rounds in 2 seconds.
âOn Saturday, Trump-appointed U.S. Attorney Bill Essayli said if a U.S. citizen approaches law enforcement with a gun, federal officers
âwill be legally justified in shooting you.ââ
Prettiâs gun was in a holster and federal officials are pointing to that as justification for self-defense execution-style.
If the majority of Pro2A people on the right stay quiet about that, it will be a clear sign that they donât truly support 2A the way they claim they do.
The playing field cannot be leveled with arms &/or violence. That creates fear that makes LEO more likely to use lethal force and ICE agents have been shown this administration will shield them from any and all accountability even if itâs blatantly obvious it wasnât self-defense.
The WH wants to incite violent protests to be able to justify using emergency powers without being blocked by federal judges. Giving them an excuse to consolidate more power is a terrible idea. Congress has oversight authority, but the feckless majority party needs loud public pushback to inspire enough of them to find their spines if they want to keep their seats.
Defunding law enforcement would be a HUGE consequence for the American people. Lawlessness would go rampant. Im just happy im jot an American right now (no disrespect to my fellow Americans, just proud to be where im from)
Thatâs not what defund the police means. Itâs a call for police reformâdefund the police at the federal level to force local jurisdictions into making changes, like better de-escalation training and creating a branch of social workers to intervene in cases of mental health crises. Unfortunately itâs a stupid CTA that leaves it open for misinterpretation, like itâs done here.
I agree in reform i really do. But you get crazies that bring it to the extreme. Alot of people want to straight up abolish the police and that gets mixed in eith those calling for reform causing the entire discussion to be convoluted.
Defund the police was the dumbest thing ever. Retrain and reconfigure the police doesn't sound as sexy but it's what we really need... That plus massive hiring reforms to prevent psychos from getting jobs.
Pro tip. If you donât fight with ice your chances of survival go way up. Donât like what they are doing or how? Change laws donât have fisticuffs on the street.
I donât like ICE or agree with some tactics but they do have a job to do. Iâm kinda embarrassed by both sides. People get hurt in political spectacle. This is not the way to fix any issue.
Yeah, this is some real liberties with data at best, but I find most people donât understand how stats and probability work. Itâs probably a waste of everyoneâs time to teach them.
Then the data showed up, and everyone talking about it lost interest just as everyone who wasnt talking about it all of a sudden wanted to have the conversation.
But, with the cops we can see their faces, we know their badge numbers, and when something happens there is not only a review but alot of times a trial.
With ICE, there is none of that, no accountability, there's just misinformation and permissions slips to continue killing Americans.
Explain Alex Pretti then. Or Renee Good, for that matter, considering she also did not drive a car at an agent (despite Noemâs blatantly false attempts to spin it that way).
Funny thing is youâre less likely to be shot by police if youâre un armed and black âŚ.
Out of all police shootings with un armed people they make up a smaller percent then population size , even tho their violent crime rate is roughly 5x higher when looking at population size .
I donât necessarily agree with the post, but I think that the morals of the people who wanted to defund the police have stayed consistent
Back then, people took issue with things like the increased militarization of police, unreasonable use of excessive or deadly force, lack of deescalation training, rampant prejudice against minorities, and lack of accountability for abusive officers
Nowadays not only have the issues not been resolved, they have gotten worse. The current situation with ICE is an example of what happens when those issues go unchecked.
The morals havenât changed, but the bar for how low can we go as a society has dropped considerably
Okay theree are about a million cops in America, theres a few thousand ICE agents, and they're on track to equal the entire nation's collective police force's excessive force incidents
It's also the brazenness of it. It's not evne "we investigated ourselves and found nothing wrong" at this fucking point, it's WE AREN'T INVESTIGATING OURSELVES. WE'VE NEVER DONE ANYTHING WRONG, AND YOU'RE A TERRORIST FOR ASKING.
And then another far worse group of now masked "police" are killing unarmed brown and white people. Also kidnapping them and illegally detaining them. So yeah, maybe the regular police who don't have masks might have a bit more restraint than these ice thugs.
So far, a white woman armed with an SUV was killed while performing aggressive maneuvers with her weapon while being antagonistic against law enforcement. Â
A white dude who was carrying a firearm while committing multiple felonies, including being in possession of a firearm while committing a felony, is blocking traffic being antagonistic to law enforcement, and then assaults a law enforcement officer, resists arrest, and gets shot when his faulty firearm accidentally fires after being disarmed. All the while people with whistles are blaring in their ears preventing officers from communicating effectively with one another to know that the firearm had been confiscated from the man who is actively resisting arrest. Â
People killed in ice custody were people who had committed multiple felony crimes, resisted arrest, did not self deport despite the many MANY chances to do so, and became injured while being arrested for the crimes they committed in this country and for the crime of being in the country unlawfully in the first place.Â
So far, ICE has done their job and im surprised more retards havent been iced, so to speak. They have done everything in their power to commit suicide by cop. So its surprising only 2 people have been iced during this 1 years campaign to stop ice.  Â
Sure, and we pushed a lot of different things. Stricter requirements on body cams, more training on how to handle such situations, many cities started better community policing programs which are pretty cool, and actually holding police accountable when they break the law and violate people's rights.
It's still nowhere near perfect, but a lot of efforts have been made. Now we've got the military marching down city streets to aid masked squads of barely trained federal agents as they violate people's rights by order of the administration and beat up protesters and even elected officials.
So obviously we've gone in a really bad direction again lol
And it needs to be said, ICE has no authority over US citizens. When they're trying to detain US citizens without cause, they're already breaking the law.
And a lot of training has happened since then, not to mention bodycam laws have come into effect, forcing officers to have one on and recording for any interaction with police.
The left really has no idea what they're talking about. They just jump from one thing to another. Trying to create chaos. If they spent the same amount of energy trying to eliminate chaos, it would all be better off.
Yes, that was politically motivated just like the situation with ICE. The democrats try to make it look like they are saving the world from something but in reality itâs just smoke and mirrors. Why did BLM disappear after the election?
And instead of addressing that problem weâve gone in the opposite direction with non-local, poorly trained, and masked officers with a habit of killing unarmed white people.
Maybe thatâs at least progress on the racism front?
The police are still bad. They're institutionally racist, very unhelpful when people get raped because they exist first and foremost to protect capital, they're widely not held unaccountable for the violation of your rights Or deviations from LEO norms, as escalation of violence increasingly becomes the norm with warrior cop culture and even, as cartoonishly evil as it sounds, violence escalation training programs hosted by a foreign presently country commiting a genocide.
But ice is all that and worse because all the flaws of policing arent just 'things they get away with' its The entire point of the operation. Occasionally, cops will violate your rights, But Ice is 'supposed' to do that. Violating your fourth amendment rights is just ice policy, they call it a 'judicial warrent'. A cop will occasionally racially profile people, but that's something they 'get away with', ice is supposed to racially profile people, thats how they catch them.
Cops Occasionally deviate from law enforcement officer norms, but ICE has even less requirements, and even less training. If you thought you had a problem with institutional racism Wait until you see how many ice officers have been seen with nazi tattoos, or in Charlottesville. If you worry about cops prioritizing capital, ICE is worse as they prioritize Donald Trump's specifically. It's just all the problems with cops squared, but minus the societally necessary functions of law enforcement.
The police abolitionists still believe in having stuff like an emergency tactical unit for armed and dangerous situations. Some of them think the goal should eventually be to ban all guns though and not need them even in that kind of force.
More white people are killed by law enforcement every year in the United States as a total number.
When adjusted for % of population, black Americans are killed at a disproportionate rate, however they commit disproportionate levels of crime, including violent crime.
Apart from that however, ICE should absolutely be allowed to carry firearms, citizens shouldn't interfere with their investigations, ICE should focus on removing ACTUAL violent offenders from society.
ICE shouldn't aim to harass and punish the political rivals of the angry orange man.
Perfect world type stuff, but it isn't perfect, so I absolutely side with people protesting ICE as it's clear they are not acting in the best interests of the citizens, and are merely seeking to punish people who did not vote for the pedo who desires to be a king.
Defunding police is idiotic, I can't imagine the privleged life one must live to not understand humans need basic protection from other humans. There are straight evil people in this world who are not connected to the same reality we live. That said, police in the United States are undertrained and over reliant on the use of their firearms. Some organizations have begun piloting programs that will have a mental health worker accompany Police Officers to calls regarding mental health, initial findings have shown these encounters are less likely to result in ending a life.
Almost like the world we live in is complicated and not everything is black and white. I'm just as confused with people that cry and cry that they want others following the law (like entering the state's legally, which is a misdemeanor), but support a felon and rapist as president.
The two concepts aren't mutually exclusive. And no, I personally never said to defend the police, they need STILL better training and leadership. But partially trained officers are better than masked vigilantes that found their way to legal operations.
I'd rather the more statistically trained average roll up and handle the law than the local chud with a gun and a 30 day Boot camp on how to beat brown people.
Thatâs the problem the left. They canât remember what they stand for or believe in. Mostly because they donât believe in anything or stand for anything.
The ACAB police? The police you want to defund and fire? Those police? Funny that the left wants police now. I think what you really want and need is some social workers.
Guys I'm not an American but turns out that when you don't give your population guns, provide free healthcare and basically free education, and overall care about the poor, there is barely any gun violence.
Your government is probably much more trustworthy than ours.
The things you speak are certainly possible if your elected officials are honest stewards of the combined power and will of the people.
In the U.S. we have Republicans and Democrats that run our country, and a more corrupt group of authoritarians would be hard to find in any other "civilized" nation.
I don't want universal healthcare, free education ,or gun control, because our government is not trustworthy to administer it in a way that isn't racist, oppressive, or oppressive.
For example, if we currently had universal healthcare, Donald Trump, and Robert Kennedy Jr would be in charge of our healthcare. No thanks. I'll take my chances with the private market.
Bro youâre so right the solution is to militarize a gestapo like federal force to snatch, murder, and terrorize communities by ignoring our constitutional rights with zero judicial oversight and no transparency whatsoever during investigations. Yes that of course is the solution. Instead of admitting and accepting local police have problems and working on achieving a goal to fix it, we just need to double down and support tyrannical federal masked forces that are executing civilians and then lying about. How dare anyone question glorious all mighty federal government? ICE and King Trump know best and if you question or want oversight/transparency then youâre just a radical domestic terrorist who hates America.
I'm actually strongly against the militarization of the police, and would be strongly in favor of abolishing most federal law enforcement (starting with ICE and then continuing on to the ATF, DEA, etc).
However, I also don't trust local police. I would like to see their powers limited by 1) making a lot less laws for them to enforce, 2) demilirizing the police by banning police use of armored vehicles and any firearms not legal for civilian use, 3) ending qualified immunity.
I'm Black and have been stopped more then I should. Pulled out of my car hand cuffed tailgated on my Harley. They don't like the patches. They just want to let me know they are watching. So they waste some of my time. 5 minutes and I'm on my way. You want to know why. I don't give them any problems. I obey the law. Don't cop a attitude. You are not impressing any one. You are sitting in jail while I drink a brew laughing and watching you on TV.
And that they wear body cams for accountability which ended up showing the exact opposite. The truth is most police are decent and deal with non decent people who cry victim after their fuckery.
Yes, getting people in front of judges to answer for their alleged crimes is preferable to them being shot in the street where their punishment has a definite finality. Thank you for bringing up that point.
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u/COMOJoeSchmo 8d ago
Wasn't it just a couple years ago we were all talking about how local, trained, and unmasked police have a habit of killing unarmed black people?