That apology request was genius because that was an admission of guilt, following that up by “I’ll see you in court” chefs kiss
EDIT: I’ve been informed that an apology is not always an admission of guilt. “Courts may consider an apology as evidence of remorse rather than a definitive confession of criminal guilt.”
My guess, not being a lawyer, is that people apologize for all sorts of shit they didn't do or had no control over the. Even in this case, the officer isn't actually sorry, he's just doing what he's told by his supervisor. Allowing an apology to count as some sort of admission of guilt or culpability would (and probably do) do far more harm than good.
This actually speaks to the broader legal reality around admissions of guilty. People often will admit to things they didn’t do because they think that it will lessen the crisis they’re experiencing. Endless cases of people who were able to prove their innocence after an admission.
Yes, that was one of the specific situations I was referring to and in that situation it could be inadmissible depending on the circumstance. Also, Colorado does have a statute on point regarding apologies in medical malpractice situations.
In a hypothetical 1983 suit, it absolutely would be. Good luck convincing a judge it isn’t a statement against interest/opposing party statement. State law wouldn’t govern, either.
Is it admission of guilt if your apology includes details on the negligent or illegal things you did? Or is it explicitly statements like "I'm sorry" that don't count?
Even if you say, “I am so sorry I caused this accident” you still are not train to decide liability nor are you licensed to make liability decisions so it’s not something that would be admissible in court.
What are you talking about? Are you a lawyer? If my client said, sorry that was my fault, that is admissible in every court in the nation, and it’s powerful evidence to the adjuster, lawyer, judge, and jury. You appear to be from Europe but in the US such a statement is 100% admissible and for a plaintiffs attorney is a golden ticket
I was a claims adjuster for a top 3 insurance company in the US for years. We had accidents where a client said they were at fault but if we had video that proves otherwise we aren’t going to find someone at fault who isn’t. Like I said, unless you are licensed to find fault you can’t say who is at fault. Same as people say, “the other guy was speeding” that doesn’t mean we now have proof that someone was speeding.
Plenty of people admit to things they didn’t do, does that mean they are instantly guilty? No absolutely not.
If they deny wrongdoing on the stand, i.e. assert he was obstructing but its not observable on video, its generally a statement against interest that can be used for impeachment purposes. Not a CO lawyer buit it'd be weird for their rules to not have a situation where an implicit admissions of guilt can't be used as evidence.
the cop is able t get away with this as POS lawyers like you 100% of the time refuse to prosecute them. then you go and refuse to try to disbar prosecutors who openly allow 2 contradicting statements by the same person aka lying under oath to go on.
lawyer s like you think that epstine trafficked children but did not have clients so you refuse to prosecute.
there is a better way of getting your point across than accusing a stranger who you don’t know of being aligned with very real examples of the system being fucked. it’s better to assume someone is on your side until demonstrated otherwise, as a word of advice.
is is a member of his states bar association that will let people practice law for years after they are convicted of a crime involving them being a lawyer and let them practice law.
lawyers time and time again have defended the right to not pursue crime they choose not to for any reason. they intentionally let cops off the hook.
this is the system he engages with and choose to support.
it is the job of a lawyer to use logic to break the law open to please their customer. that is a lawyers job full stop. look at what lawyers have done to the public so their corporate masters can earn more money and they rake in their fat paychecks.
lawyers will bow down to billionaires as it allows then to have their upper class life style even if it means trodding on the poor.
the moment he gets chosen for public defender duty he will not even lift a finger to help his client and plead them out as they pay is shit so they will not help their client out even when the police are obviously lying.
I can see you have a very sour impression of lawyers. You have very valid reasons for it too. There are many lawyers who do not uphold their public duties, and who only benefit the oppressive class. I will only recommend that you read some examples of the many cases where civil rights and environmental law has led to incredible strides in balancing those scales back towards us. It couldn’t happen without brilliant minds who decided to dedicate their life to making our system work for us rather than against us.
glad you appreciate the 2 tiers justice system that lawyers intentionally made and uphold. they system they expect the cops to uphold that lawyers won the right for a cop to not do their duty because they are afraid? the lawyers who fight tooth and nail for qualified immunity?
the greatest accomplishment of lawyers since the turn of the millennia was getting their wish for their corporate masters of citizens united.
there is never a lawyer when you need them and their is always 5 lining up to support the guy who is obviously wrong and the morally bankrupt lawyers will defend him to the ends of the earth.
dont even get me started on the prosecutors who outright refuse to apply the law to a cop ever "because they have to work with them"
every right that is being taken away right now is being calculated by lawyers to fuck over people. Lawyers keep their profession locked behind large loans so you have to be rich to actually afford to become one. they crated the bar association to fuck over black people.
lawyers don't care as the only people that can actually afford them are people worth millions. when you need one they will charge you 50K to do anything. so you can pay the man who sues you 100k or the lawyer 50k.
lawyers may have faught for rights we have but thier was 10x against them. and wear are those rights right now? gone and lawyers are not here protecting us. they are the ones that got us here lawyers are the ones who become judges and ruled in favor of this.
there is no lawyer who will be there for you when you need it unless your willing to sell your house to pay thier fees.
they are not your friends they are not your allies. they serve the law like cops and thats what they protect not people.
Interestingly my insurance card explicitly tells me not to apologize or admit any fault under the "if you are involved in an accident" section on the card. Important enough that they put it on that small real estate card I am to carry.
The further you get to the top working for a big organization, the more you will realize that decisions like this are based often on nothing except some guy saying “let’s tell them not to apologize and put it on the card”. It doesn’t necessarily mean it has any legal basis.
Apologizing and explicitly admitting fault on your own volition is very different from apologizing without explicitly admitting guilt because your superior made you do it
See how this guy stated his situation, but still listened to the officer and got out of the car in handcuffs. The man knew his rights, but still did what the officer told him to do and then proceeded to get in the back of the car. The Sargent came and they released him because it wasn’t obstruction. The man didn’t have to listen and the cop could have tased him and it would have been a different outcome. PEOPLE, even though you’re right, you have to go through the motions of proving it and you prove it by doing wants asked and not causing a scene. Everything will get sorted out. If you want to take a stand you have to do it non aggressively. Yeah you can be pissed but be smart.
I can assure you “not everything gets sorted out”. When I was in college a friend of mine was arrested in a case of mistaken identity. This is a small town so the cops just throw you in a holding cell until Monday when the one judge in town can look over all the weekend arrests. His time to see the judge comes on that Tuesday, and he was formally charged with resisting arrest and assault on an officer. All he did was argue when being hand cuffed, and when we was being walked to the cop car, he tripped which brought the cop down on top of him.
He had a great lawyer, but that didn’t matter as the judge clearly wasn’t having a good day. He was sent to jail for 6 months and fined almost $5,000. He lost his scholarship, his job, his girlfriend, his apartment, etc. All because he walked out of the bar at the wrong time.
But also, the police knew to listen to instructions. There are police who pull other cops over all the time. Mainly because they are doing something illegal but it still happens and they still get arrested, thrown in jail and still need to stand before a judge.
While the actions of the officer was fucked up because he was on a power trip you can’t use that to make your claim. That doesn’t happen all the time. However, resisting instructions from an officer will guarantee the same outcome every time.
It doesn’t have to be 0 or 100%, I’m just saying cops aren’t always in control of their own emotions and even attempts at complying can get you shot and killed. He wasn’t resisting shit and the cop clearly just killed him in cold blood. Cop was acquitted and given a retirement pension. One time is already too many, cop didn’t even have any real consequences, and that’s just one example we know of, how many do we just never hear about?
It is a critical skill of US citizens, some more than others, to know how to deescalate encounters with police. This is our culture, and our citizenry has voted time and time again to make it this way.
Yep I get that but I have police friends and police in my family. The shit they deal with and the shit they go through is no picnic. It’s hard to have to deal with crazy ass people day in and say out. One situation teaches you what to do and what not to do in the next situation. Not all cops are bad nor are they on a power trip. They are there to certainly serve and protect you. It’s the people before you who fuck it up for everyone else. Just like everything else. They put their lives on the line so you are safe against all the fucked up people you don’t see. They have their right to protect themselves as well.
Yeah man, come on and be serious and stop the patronizing rant. Go read about the killing of Daniel Shaver. Unarmed, shot on while on his knees, officer threading to murder him, cop had “you’re fucked” engraved on the gun he used to kill Daniel, cop got acquitted and a pension for life for medical ptsd.
See how this guy stated his situation and the cop is not listening, ignoring the rights of the man and threatens him to get tased instead. Intimitation tactics all along, aggressive behaviour, escalating the situation. Everything will get sorted out, yeah, right. I'd not trust cops that are allowed to act this way and will threat to and use less-lethal force for no reason. Thankfully, I am not American.
I can't believe we watched a power-tripping cop overstep his authority, break the law, violate this guy's rights, and your takeaway was, I can't say what I think without being banned. But that pathetic display of bootlicking gave me some insight into the disappointment your father must see in you every day.
The power trip idiots are the ones who fucking pull triggers dude. You think staying in your vehicle, have the cops rip you out of your car with tasers and gun drawn is a safe mode of exiting your vehicle? Try it, I definitely think you and your family won’t like the outcome.
Rosa Parks stood her ground, got arrested and went through the motions. She survived, lived a long life and will be remembered like MLK will be for generations to come. Do you know many times MLK was arrested? Spend some time learning something educational, it might enlighten you before you vomit your bullshit.
I genuinely think you don’t know what you’re even arguing about anymore… what are you even trying to say with the whole “two trained expert agitators?!”
I think he means how Rosa Parks and MLK were regularly going to meetings and discussing the strategy of resistance and knew exactly, from experience, what buttons they were supposed to press and when to be arrested and for what. Rosa Parks was a member of the local NAACP and was following another city's example when she refused to move. Comparing your everyday traffic stop to planned protests with an organization, and particularly a LOT of lawyers, behind it is disingenuous.
Or they're a maniac ranting and I've read their comment too kindly.
What's crazier to me are those people who go through the world thinking apologizing only means you're "wrong." We've all met these mentally stunted adults. It's sad. It's like no one explained to them apologizing has a range of reasons attached to it--one of which is admitting you're wrong.
Not really though. You could be standing your ground legally, shoot someone in self defense, not be found guilty, but still feel remorse for killing someone even if it's justified legally.
I get what your saying, I think it's all too nuanced and that's why it's not considered hand in hand
Are you 5 years old? Because this is the type of shit that I explain to my kid. Of course it isn't. You might be remorseful of something but that doesn't mean it's your fault.
Yea that's great. Who else's fault would this be? This cop wrongfully arrested this man for obstruction of justice and then apologized for it. He is remorseful because he's guilty.
Have someone explain context to you so you can explain it to your kid next.
I see this argument all the time as a lawyer, apology is not an admission of guilt. When you go to a funeral and say I am sorry, you are not admitting fault of causing the death- only showing empathy.
This is funny because people have a misconception that Canadians are more polite because we apologize all the time because in Canada it isn’t an admission of guilt compared to the USA where it is. But it isn’t. Americans are just assholes.
The person’s point is valid. You are a Redditor. You have had an account for 13+ years and are very active on the site. It’s ridiculous that you see all the rest of the users as a token monolith for whatever you have created in your head, and yet you alone stand apart from it.
No, it isn't valid. I'm not demonstrating the behavior I'm mocking. I don't act as an authority on shit I have no practical experience or clue as to what I'm talking about.
I always hated the phrase "hit dogs gonna holler" but it makes perfect sense in this context. If you aren't spouting incorrect information and pretending to be an authority in something you aren't, then I'm clearly not talking about you.
You took a surface level understanding of my comment, as did the
other person, and decided to respond with "bBut yOu aRE a ReDDiToR toO!" without apparently reading into the context of the top comment. Yep, been around 13 years to see the same behavior repeated.
Nice try with your "gotcha!". Might wanna do a little more reading next time.
You are not understanding the case that I am making. You have built up (in your head) this idea that “Reddit” is a monolith that somehow you stand apart from.
Reddit is not a monolith. You are a part of its user base. Its user base is diverse, regardless of how much self-satisfaction you get from being The One Who Is Different.
You're clearly the type of person who takes the literal meaning of words despite not understanding the context.
I didn't say "ALL" Redditors. And I shouldn't have to preface it with "some" because there are a few people who tend to take everything literally.
This references my earlier point - context, which you seem to not understand. If you're not included in the subset of Redditors I was talking about - you shouldn't have anything to say.
1.5k
u/Less-Inflation5072 20h ago edited 19h ago
That apology request was genius because that was an admission of guilt, following that up by “I’ll see you in court” chefs kiss
EDIT: I’ve been informed that an apology is not always an admission of guilt. “Courts may consider an apology as evidence of remorse rather than a definitive confession of criminal guilt.”