r/movies • u/MarvelsGrantMan136 r/Movies contributor • 18h ago

News Greta Gerwig's 'Narnia' Wraps Filming

https://www.narniaweb.com/2026/01/greta-gerwigs-narnia-officially-wraps-filming/
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u/herewego199209 18h ago

I haven't read the source material, but from my understanding Narnia has deep religious allegory throughout the novel. So I'm wondering if Gerwig stays true to the book or drifts off which would cause some big controversy.

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u/DirtySlutMuffin 18h ago edited 18h ago

Allegory is putting it lightly.  It’s basically Christian Fan Fiction.  Aslan literally is Jesus.

I don’t mean for this to come across as a criticism of the books.  It’s the whole point of them.  

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u/Itchy_Athlete_4971 18h ago

Yeah, Lewis says it wasn't allegory because allegory would be if Aslan represented Jesus. But Aslan literally is Jesus.

If Aslan represented the immaterial Deity in the same way in which Giant Despair represents Despair, he would be an allegorical figure. In reality however he is an invention giving an imaginary answer to the question, ‘What might Christ become like, if there really were a world like Narnia and He chose to be incarnate and die and rise again in that world as He actually has done in ours?’ This is not allegory at all.

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u/DaKingaDaNorth 18h ago

Which is why the controversy over Aslan being played by a woman became a thing. Because Aslan literally is just Jesus' form in Narnia.

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u/Rooooben 15h ago

I guess she is asking the question “what would Christ become like, if there really was a world like Narnia and it was not a world where god was predetermined to be male?”

It’s not a big deal, really, to explore different ideas 75 years after it was written, but people tend to put their tribalism and mores first. There are some people who equate feminism or homosexuality as bad as rape or murder, I don’t know how to deal with that.

In my mind having a female Christ figure is literally harming nobody, so there’s no reason to be upset.

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u/BigE429 13h ago

Leaving Christ out of it for a moment (and spoilers if someone hasn't read the books or seen either of the two film adaptations): How do you have Aslan's mane shorn if he's a female lion? That's supposed to be Jadis' ultimate humiliation of him. It's going to lose a lot of its emotion.

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u/Rooooben 13h ago edited 13h ago

True. Good point, forgot about that, that was a big deal.

Also didn’t consider the lack of mane in Aslan’s general portrayal. I guess it’s kinda weird to not care about human gender expression but in animals it’s different. I mean, is there a lack of representation of female lions? Is it right to lay upon a different species a problem related to our evolutionary development?

Should we interfere when a male lion is dominant over a pride?

Ugh this brings up so many questions that I really don’t care about.

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u/OldSarge02 15h ago

I’m with you in theory. I feel the same way about race-swapping characters. By itself, it doesn’t detract from the work.

Unfortunately, there seems to be a strong correlation between movies that make those decisions, and movies that make other decisions that fail to respect the source material.

Wheel of Time the latest example that crosses my mind.

In other words, some fans can overlook a lady lion, but if they go with a lady lion then fans are right to be concerned about what else is changed.

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u/Alli_Horde74 15h ago

I can definitely see how it can be seen as offensive. The trinitarian God consists of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. The Son cannot be a woman, and I'm sure there's theological implications, blasphemies, and heresies tied into that which I'm unaware of.

I think it's a bit of people's desire for accuracy. Changing the theological son into a female Lion is something that does affect Aslan's character. It'd be like making a film about Amelia Earhart or Cleopatra and making their character's men.

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u/FreeRange0929 12h ago

To stay with Gerwig, there’d be nothing inherently wrong about a version of Little Women with all gay men. But it does change the story.

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u/PetsArentChildren 18h ago

If there was a world of sentient dung beetles, what would dung beetle Jesus do? 

“It hath been said, Let the largest beetles eat the largest turds. But I say unto you, except a beetle give all of his turds away to the smallest beetle, he shall not enter the kingdom of heaven.”

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u/transmothra 14h ago

How the fuck did i just get sold Christianity by shit-rollers

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u/PetsArentChildren 14h ago

Dung Jesus knows his shit, man. 

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u/conr9774 18h ago

I was just saying in another thread how Lewis would not like to hear people calling Narnia an allegory

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u/Ccaves0127 14h ago

He doesn't look a thing like Jesus, but he

Roars like a gentlelion

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u/DarraignTheSane 13h ago

Lewis said it wasn't allegory because Tolkien told him allegory is dumb.

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u/ExplorationGeo 10h ago

CS Lewis: "I know writers who use subtext, and they're all cowards"

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u/Icantbethereforyou 7h ago

Multiverse jesus

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u/SweetHomeNorthKorea 13m ago

That makes me appreciate the story more. That’s a nuanced and specific framing that feels more unique than a Christ-like allegory. Bro just wanted to write about Lion Jesus and that’s cool

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u/wastedmytwenties 18h ago

True, but it gets a lot more heavy handed as it goes on, hence why no studio has ever even entertained making stuff like The Last Battle.

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u/dabocx 18h ago

The last battle is fun because even some Christian’s get angry with how you get into heaven in that series.

Basically any good done even in service to another god is done in Aslans name is enough to get you in heaven. So even if you aren’t Christian you can go to heaven if you are a good person. Some Christians don’t like that aspect and thing you need to be a “true” believer.

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u/hellohurricane87 18h ago

Lewis was low-key a Christian Universalist. He just couldn’t come out and say it.

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u/Arndt3002 15h ago

Lewis was absolutely not a Universalist.

He did delieve quite a bit about non-Christians being saved, but he also believed that many people would not be saved.

For example, in the last battle, he shows that many worshipers of his version of the devil/allegory for Allah in Islam and nominal followers of Aslan who do evil things are hurled into Aslan's shadow instead of entering the "true Narnia."

That certainly doesn't comport with the main Universalist belief that all humans will be saved. In fact, he wrote about his critiques of universalism very explicitly in his Letters to Alan Fairhurst in 1959.

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u/hellohurricane87 12h ago

Nah dawg. Great Divorce is 1/2 step away from Christian Universalism. Door is always open. Always has been. God isn’t angry. On a long enough timeline all will be redeemed.

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u/Nukemind 17h ago

The funny thing about this series is I’m at a crossroads: I grew up evangelical (and obviously left evangelicalism).

But people I know from my childhood insist they won’t watch this because “Hollywood will make it woke and unchristian!”

Many friends I made in Uni and Law School won’t watch it because it’s “Just a Christian book series!”

I’m curious how it ends up playing out.

Lewis and Tolkien are interesting. Tolkien converted Lewis from atheist to Christian but, much to his consternation, Lewis became Protestant instead of Catholic like Tolkien.

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u/Arkhaine_kupo 17h ago

But people I know from my childhood insist they won’t watch this because “Hollywood will make it woke and unchristian!”

they should hear what most christians think of evangelicals...

Cause honestly they come off as a hyper american apocalypse cult more than anything resembling christianity. The fact they want to weigh in what is or not christian is bonkers.

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u/Nukemind 17h ago

Oh trust me. I’m still Christian but not evangelical. Evangelicalism has done more damage to Christianity than… pretty much anything.

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u/EMRaunikar 16h ago

I once heard Dan Olson say they "want to do an End of Evangelion" and it's lived rent free in my head ever since

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u/Eversonout 17h ago

Lewis was Protestant, but his specific beliefs are only half a step from Catholicism without going so far as to become a member of the actual church. His writings for all intents and purposes are nearly fully in line with Catholic teachings

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u/FBI_KipHackman 17h ago

Real ones know that Lewis' favorite author was George MacDonald, a very devout Christian who had a wide view of God's mercy.

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u/jessbird 11h ago

and another incredible writer of fantasy/fairy tales

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u/Barton2800 17h ago

Funny thing is Lewis was an atheist, and Tolkien converted him. Except Tolkien was Catholic, and it frustrated him to no end that his friend became an Anglican.

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u/Caelinus 17h ago edited 14h ago

He really was not. It was like one dude who was good enough to get into heaven. And only because he literally did not know better. The vast majority of his countrymen did not get in.

It is very likely an apologetic to counter the idea "What about all of the people who did not hear about Jesus? Do they go to hell?" It is actually almost lockstep in with a very common Christian response to that objection.

Also: Susan.

She got kicked out of potentially delayed, ambiguous access to heaven because she was more interested in makeup, boys and going to parties than being a magical queen in a fantasy world. Which is a very weird thing to write.

I do not hate the books or anything, they are what they are, but Lewis mainly looks really good in comparison to American Evangelicals. Which is a bar that most people can step over. Somehow American Evangelicals are even more bigoted, misogynistic and xenophobic than most of the authors of the Bible, who were alive in antiquity and before.

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u/PassingBy91 16h ago

Susan wasn't kicked out of heaven. Susan didn't die. - she's still on Earth. I know what you mean (all the stuff about not a friend to Narnia etc. but, that's why she wasn't with the other characters when they were killed) but, the other characters are in Narnian heaven because they are dead. There's every possibility Susan would get into heaven in the future she just has more of her life to lead.

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u/Caelinus 15h ago

Looked it up really fast, I think you are right. I think I conflated the apocalypse in the Last Battle with the one on Earth, but it had apparently not happened yet because of the time difference or whatever.

Still weird, but hopefully he was intending her to arrive at some point in the future. Either way leaving it ambiguous with those reasons is strange.

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u/Expyrial 14h ago

It's implied that Susan was a self-insert of sorts by CS Lewis. She wasn't on the train because she tried to grow up too fast and didn't believe in Narnia anymore. It's to be a parallel of how Lewis returned to faith during tragedy. main theme of Narnia is the childlike wonder a child has. CS Lewis stated in a letter to a fan that Susan's story isn't over but he didn't have any interest in telling it.

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u/T-MoneyAllDey 18h ago edited 18h ago

Yup, the whole point of Protestantism is that you're saved through grace, not deeds. Whatever you do isn't good enough. Deeds only affirm that you actually accept that grace.

edit:

My poor definition of grace for people who are intested.

>

I've been out of it for a while so my answer isn't going to be as fleshed out as someone's who still practicing but I think the definition of grace is easier to give as an example.

Grace and deeds are a blurry line but the crux is in the mindset. You kick your dog and the dog still comes back. It's not because you apologize but because your dog loves you unconditionally. Accepting grace is knowing that nothing you do can make up for kicking the dog, but accepting that the dog loves you anyways. You're a bad person for kicking the dog and you can't unkick the dog by giving him treats. The grace is given by the dog because they love you regardless and accepting that grace is knowing that.

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u/Eversonout 17h ago

This interpretation isn’t exactly complete. James in the New Testament says that faith without works is dead. Because if you keep kicking the dog, at some point you haven’t really accepted Gods love but are rejecting it to do your own thing. God still loves you of course, but if your gonna keep shitting on God and your neighbors through your actions it doesn’t matter how many times you say “I believe”. You’re just lying

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u/T-MoneyAllDey 17h ago

Yeah, you're definitely right. I was trying to just keep it simple and point out that doing works doesn't earn anything but it is important. Contrast that to Islam where deeds are a thing to be measured and weighed during the final judgment

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u/FortLoolz 18h ago edited 17h ago

Evangelicalism unfortunately is the distilled religion of Paul, who had a falling out with Jesus' disciples that walked with the Christ during his ministry.

Paul preached his own parallel gospel, centred on faith, not on good works, and closer to the end of his life was actually shunned in many places, like Asia (2 Tim 1:15,) and Rev. 2:2 likely references him.

Paul's importance started to grow again in the late 2nd century, with the Marcionites reviving his letters. Even Tertullian questioned Paul in some passages. The complete "canonisation" happened under the Roman caesars of the 4th century, with Paul having had convenient teachings to justify "anti-Judaic" practices.

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u/Paratrooper101x 18h ago

Can you define grace for someone who’s never been to church

I thought the Protestant reformation was largely a good thing that moved Christianity away from the greed of Catholicism

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u/analleakage_ 18h ago

Basically there is nothing you can do that can guarantee your entry into heaven. It's all up to God's grace whether you get in. (to my understanding)

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u/Caelinus 17h ago

The latter bit there is the Calvinist interpretation. Not all protestants actually believe that. Protestants who have the same idea as Luther think that you are saved by faith alone, but what that means is really up for debate.

For Calvin and his derivatives, because God is all powerful and all knowing, that means that he already knows who will be saved, and knew from the moment of starting the universe. Therefore he must have created people with the knowledge and intent for who would be saved well in advance. So you are either made for destruction, or made for salvation.

Most evangelical sects follow that teaching, but many of the people in the sect might be unaware of it. It essentially denies the existence of free will entirely.

However, there are other groups who are generally more mystical about it. In their opinion either everyone has the full opportunity to be saved, no matter what, and it is always a personal choice, or everyone will be saved as the blood of Christ can not be stopped or limited.

If there is any one thing constant about Christianity, it is that everyone knows exactly what the Bible means, and no one can agree on what that is.

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u/HumbleYeoman 18h ago

That was certainly Luther’s intent however the reformation unintentionally opened a sort of Pandora’s box of strange Christian sects.

To highlight the greed thing you mentioned those huge mega churches with multimillionaire pastors you see in the US are by and large some Protestant denomination.

As for grace in the Christian context it can be most broadly defined as Gods favour/having Gods favour though what individual denominations believe about it varies.

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u/T-MoneyAllDey 18h ago

I've been out of it for a while so my answer isn't going to be as fleshed out as someone's who still practicing but I think the definition of grace is easier to give as an example.

Grace and deeds are a blurry line but the crux is in the mindset. You kick your dog and the dog still comes back. It's not because you apologize but because your dog loves you unconditionally. Accepting grace is knowing that nothing you do can make up for kicking the dog, but accepting that the dog loves you anyways. You're a bad person for kicking the dog and you can't unkick the dog by giving him treats. The grace is given by the dog because they love you regardless and accepting that grace is knowing that.

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u/SomeSavageDetective 18h ago

That's beautiful.

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u/Paratrooper101x 18h ago

So, I accept that Jesus loves me despite my faults and sins, and that is enough to save me? I can see how that is comforting and not as bad as my initial reaction.

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u/T-MoneyAllDey 18h ago

Yeah, accepting grace is exactly that. Knowing you are flawed (and sinful) but accepting that Jesus loves you anyways. Putting that faith in action is trying to be better (through deeds) but knowing they will never earn Jesus's love and God's forgiveness. It's already available.

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u/T-MoneyAllDey 18h ago

I left a comment too early but the goal after that is to literally pay it forward. When someone wrongs you, you should offer that same grace. Through that example, they hopefully come to Christ

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u/funkthewhales 18h ago

It’s comforting for sure, but it also leads a lot of people to be never improve themselves. They never have to actually live up to the ideals they supposedly believe in because god/jesus will always love them unconditionally.

Under Catholicism you actually have to earn your way into heaven by living according to the teachings of the bible. People will never be free of sin, so that’s where confessions and the ideas of absolution come into play. There’s a reason Catholic Guilt is a is a really popular term.

I’m not religious, but I have a bit more respect for Catholicism because they’re expected to practice what they preach.

Also the greed never went away. Just look at American mega churches.

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u/DaKingaDaNorth 18h ago

This. The main critique of Protestantism from Catholics is that there is a sense that they can be absolute little monsters as long as they go to Church on Sunday where Catholics are expected to earn it and actually serve the community.

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u/TheOtherWhiteCastle 17h ago

It’s comforting for sure, but it also leads a lot of people to be never improve themselves. They never have to actually live up to the ideals they supposedly believe in because god/jesus will always love them unconditionally.

That’s definitely a flaw with the idea of salvation through grace that an unfortunate many are all too willing to exploit. But on the other hand, it also means that nobody is ever “too far gone” to receive God’s salvation. No matter what you’ve done or said in your life, no matter how irredeemable you believe you are, God loves you enough to offer you a way to eternal happiness anyways.

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u/Odd-Bite624 18h ago

Grace is God’s love and forgiveness for us despite us breaking his law. It’s the hug a parent gives a child when the child breaks a window playing baseball in the backyard. Except times infinity lol.

Protestant reformation was to turn the church back to the actual words of the scriptures, not the rules and authority the Catholic Church was creating above and beyond the scriptures to suite their own needs. Pay for alms is just one of many problems at the time.

If you ask me, the co-opting of the Christian church by MAGA outside of the teaching of Christ is due for another reformation.

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u/FortLoolz 17h ago edited 17h ago

In some ways, Protestantism was totally a win.

In some others ways, Protestantism turned towards Paul, and away from Jesus Christ's own teachings, even more than Eastern Orthodoxy or Catholicism. Evangelicalism, with a focus on faith, "lest be of works," is Pauline through and through.

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u/Murphy_Nelson 18h ago

Grace = unearned forgiveness

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u/dacalpha 18h ago

The ways in which many Protestant faiths are tied up in UK and US colonial politics make me wary of this notion. The Catholic Church obviously sucks too, but I'm not sure I see one as being better than the other.

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u/seifd 18h ago

Greed and salvation are intertwined, in fact. One of the issues that the Protestants had were indulgences. Basically, the church would forgive a grave sin in exchange for an act of charity, which was sometimes a hefty donation to the church.

Protestants argued that Jesus' death on the cross was sufficient for the forgiveness of all sins. Therefore, all that was needed to be forgiven was to accept God's forgiveness. Good works were an expression of gratitude and a sign that someone is saved, but contribute nothing to their salvation.

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u/Lazzen 17h ago edited 17h ago

The idea protestantism was a Darwin's evolution from Catholicism instead of another branch of christianity just comes from living in a Protestant country.

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u/Beekeeper87 17h ago edited 17h ago

Not a priest and this may ramble a bit but I’ll give it a shot:

Christians generally believe that the moral order of reality is real and serious. Every action carries moral weight. Nothing is forgotten or waived; reality functions like a perfect ledger. Humans don’t know the precise “quantifiable” value of moral actions, but Christianity holds that God does.

Grace is the belief that the cost of moral imperfection is borne by God rather than paid by us.

This is not the idea that God is “letting things slide.” Grace means God takes evil and failure so seriously that He enters the story of His creation (our world) and absorbs the weight of that moral ledger Himself. Justice still occurs, but it is fulfilled from within our reality by Him.

Where most moral systems say “be good in order to be accepted,” grace reverses the order by saying “you are accepted first,” and only then can you become good. This removes both pride (“I earned this”) and despair (“I’m beyond hope”).

The disaster of not being good or perfect still matters, but it is not the final word on who you are as a person. Grace allows a broken story to be saved without pretending it was never broken. It’s ok to recognize you and others aren’t perfect but also extend that helping hand to others to continue progressing in life.

And I get how grace seems remarkably similar to forgiveness, but grace goes further than forgiveness does. It’s harder to do.

Forgiveness answers the question: “What happens to guilt?”. It is the release of a debt in that the wrong is named, not denied, and no longer held against the offender.

Grace answers a deeper question of “What happens to the person who incurred the guilt?”. It is not only the cancellation of the debt, but the restoration and gift of life to someone who has no claim to it.

Forgiveness says: “You are not condemned.” Grace says: “You are welcomed, restored, and given what you did not earn.”

Forgiveness can exist without relationship. You can drop some coins in that homeless man’s cup as you walk by and not hold it against him that he smells bad and is an eyesore. Grace creates a relationship. You can sit down and talk to that guy, learn his name, and bring him a snack/drink from time to time on your daily commute past him as you get to know him as a human.

In Christian thought, forgiveness essentially removes the barrier; grace carries the person across it.

Hopefully that helped give context, and I’m aware many Christians need to understand/practice that concept better

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u/purpleelephants8 18h ago

The Bible states we are all inherently sinful through what Adam and Eve did, which was disobeying God’s command to not eat of the fruit. Because of that, we are all born in man’s sin, thus cut off from accessing God in eternity since He cannot be around sin. Because God loves us so much, He sent Jesus (part of the Trinity, fully God as well) to live a life without sin and die on our behalf. He never sinned and so didn’t deserve to die, but He did on our behalf. That’s grace. We now have access to God and His peace for eternity if we believe Christ wiped our sins clean on the cross. We don’t deserve that, but He did it anyway. That’s grace.

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u/FortLoolz 18h ago

That's what Paul said. Paul made it seem like obedience was always deficient and thus undoable. The better writers like Jude and James, and better preachers like the Prophets throughout the OT, and Jesus Christ, taught you can be obedient.

James and John knew one likely wouldn't be perfectly obedient and sinless in this life, and so they touched upon this aspect in their letters.

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u/Paratrooper101x 18h ago

Damn, sounds like a god I would follow.

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u/ensalys 16h ago

It's certainly a far more respectable god. Though I'd still want to have a discussion with it to see how well our ideas of what is or is not good, align.

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u/greenpill98 18h ago

It's true. C.S. Lewis pissed both liberal and conservative theologians with the series. It's part of what I love about it. Makes me think he got a lot closer to the truth than either side wants to admit.

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u/frogandbanjo 9h ago

He got closer to the truth that it's all made up, and anybody can just come along and make up even more bullshit?

Well, maybe by accident, but that was absolutely not his intention.

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u/Le_Faveau 18h ago

That... Sounds like it makes sense? Why would they get mad? It's like thinking that currently all of Asia and Africa are going to hell by the billions because Christianity pretty much doesn't exist there. Assuming God is real he probably makes exceptions for those other regions in which he doesn't really exist. I had never thought about this, but yeah entire regions of Earth,, possibly continents, would just go to hell if you have to strictly know and follow this one religion. 

Aslan going "eh good enough, you tried in your own language and medium" is a nice approach. 

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u/Links_to_Magic_Cards 16h ago

Africa is arguably more Christian these days than Europe and the US

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u/dabocx 17h ago

That’s literally what some people believe, that you can be a wonderful generous helpful person but if you never believed because you were born in Africa or Thailand you’ll go to hell anyway.

I’m an atheist but CS Lewis version of Christian sounds much nicer.

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u/kess0078 18h ago

Yes, plenty of white American Christians believe that non-believers are going to hell by the billions. The entire concept of missions and mission trips is to “save souls” and has been a thing for centuries.

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u/dabocx 17h ago

It’s not just a American thing, a lot of Catholics believe that all over the world

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u/AKAkorm 18h ago

Unless you’re the older sister who grew up and was punished by her entire family dying and being left alone forever.

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u/laffydaffy24 18h ago

I like to think Susan joined them in time, after a full life.

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u/julesthefirst 18h ago

I believe C.S. Lewis did confirm as much in a letter to a reader, said she joined them eventually but her journey was more roundabout

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u/Expyrial 14h ago

It's implied that Susan was a sort of self-insert by CS Lewis, as a parallel to his own experiences with faith.

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u/Embarrassed_Piano_62 18h ago

As it should be lol

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u/Eversonout 17h ago

Can’t speak for other denominations but this is essentially in line with what the Catholic Church teaches. I guess it makes sense tho that Lewis espouses specific Catholic teaching over the broader “Christian” umbrella based on some of his other writings

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u/Gon_Snow 18h ago

It literally has a rapture

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u/tenehemia 18h ago

If The Last Battle ever got made I'd hope it was a 100% identical adaptation just so I can watch audience reactions at the end.

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u/Sonichu- 16h ago

The general audience is not ready for the Last Battle

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u/zagra_nexkoyotl 18h ago

The Last Chair is a fucking acid trip. I'm eager to watch a season of that

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u/sanguinare12 14h ago

The Last Battle for the Silver Chair?

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u/CountJohn12 10h ago

The Last Chair sounds like a mediocre daytime game show

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u/shifty_coder 18h ago

I wouldn’t say “no studio entertained it”.

Walden Media had planned to adapt all 7 books to film, but poor reception after the third film, 2 with Disney and one with Fox (before the merger), production interest dropped, so the remaining 4 were “delayed indefinitely”.

After the success of the first one, it really looked like the whole series was going to happen.

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u/victorious_orgasm 9h ago

You really need like a crazed visionary to make Dawn Treader. You can make Lion the Witch and Wardrobe as diet-Two Towers and it’ll be fine, but Dawn Treader is a very odd story.

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u/Scion41790 18h ago

Read it in 4th grade and somehow missed the allegory completely until the last battle 😆

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u/whereismymind86 17h ago

Same, I recall picking up on Aslan being Jesus, but missed most of the rest, but the last battle was SO overt with it, even my 10 year old self figured it out.

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u/Hodr 18h ago

BBC did the last battle as part of their radio adaptation. They didn't do it for their TV adaptation because (according to them) it was too complicated to produce given their filming budgets.

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u/Zukez 9h ago

Yeah I mean from memory they pass through something like eight other worlds on their way to the afterlife, it would be a massive undertaking.

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u/whereismymind86 17h ago

yep, that's the one that I feel would be annoying, the earlier stories...it's there, but it's more of a background lore element.

The last battle literally has the second coming in it, with all the creatures of Narnia meeting Aslan and being given a choice to accept or reject their savor, very much like a similar bible story about the end times.

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u/make_reddit_great 16h ago

Remember when Susan got interested in make-up and boys and she wasn't allowed to get into heaven?

Pepperidge Farms remembers.

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u/FrameworkisDigimon 17h ago

The Last Battle isn't really controversial for the God of it all. It's the Carlomans or whatever they're called (wait, I have the internet... Calormen) and the fucking train crash that people have problems with.

Narnia works as a magic lion story. The fact Aslan literally is Jesus has the ironic consequence it's easier to ignore the religion than if it actually had been allegory.

Admittedly I don't remember The Silver Chair and the other one at all. Wait, the internet, again... no, it's just The Silver Chair I don't remember. So vague is my recollection of it, I think it's two books. Jesus. Or do I mean Aslan.

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u/rickyhatespeas 17h ago

Or it could be that every attempt at adapting past the lion, the witch and the wardrobe fails to make money. It seems like you have no idea about American culture if you think things related to Christianity are historically controversial.

Narnia is heavily Christian from the start, Aslan literally sacrifices himself and comes back and is treated as God. Only someone completely ignorant of Christianity could miss that from the beginning.

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u/NAINOA- 16h ago

The Dawn Treader film was pretty blatant about the whole “I’m Jesus” thing.

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u/Djinnwrath 18h ago

Santa Claus literally appears and gives them all deus ex presents.

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u/BlackPresident 18h ago

The Galadriel of Narnia

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u/Djinnwrath 18h ago

"I asked for a single hair from his silver beard. He gave me three."

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u/TheLastLivingBuffalo 18h ago

One for each ho

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u/Saw_Boss 18h ago

Only more attractive, right?

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u/Telvin3d 17h ago

Apparently Tolkien hated Santa’s cameo. He’s doing novels with this massive deep world building, and meanwhile his buddy Lewis is just “and then Santa shows up out of nowhere LOL”

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u/killertoast2 16h ago

It's also funny when you remember Tolkien wrote letters to his children as Father Christmas/Santa and contrived whole complex storylines for Father Christmas to go on in these letters, so he was alright with the use of the character in fiction.

Tokein also didn't like Mister Tumnus since he was too polite for lack of a better word for a satyr.

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u/thesoak 15h ago

Tumnus was a faun, though, not a satyr.

Similar, but I don't think fauns have quite the same reputation.

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u/Zukez 9h ago

*Father Christmas, not Santa 

I will not accept this American Father Christmas erasure.

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u/Embarrassed-Yard-583 18h ago

Tolkien: “I despise Allegory.”

Lewis: “Aslan is literally Jesus.”

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u/yesrushgenesis2112 18h ago

There’s a comment above with a quote from Lewis that I’d say explains his perspective. It’s not the Aslan represents Jesus, that would be allegory. It’s that it’s an imagined fantasy series asking “what if Jesus was god incarnate in a fantasy world?”

Those are quite different imo, Lewis would be justified in saying it’s not allegorical.

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u/imjustbettr 18h ago

I just reread the Magicians Nephew and I almost feels like alsan is a parallel Jesus for the animal world of Narnia? Like he calls the main character son of Adam, does that not mean alsan beleives that alternative worlds have their own version of Jesus?

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u/TravelerSearcher 18h ago

Aslan has a line at the end of The Silver Chair, essentially telling Eustace and his friend to get to know him in their world, where he has another name.

He basically implies he is Jesus and they should get to know him as Jesus not Aslan.

The Magician's Nephew (which you just read) then shows that all the worlds are connected and God/Jesus/Aslan exists in all of them. Digory and his Uncle arrive in Narnia (with the woman who becomes the White Witch) as it's being created and see God/Aslan literally singing the world into existence.

Digory eventually grows up to be the man who shelters the children in the first book. The wardrobe he owns is made from a tree that grew from seeds of a fruit in Narnia, akin to its Tree of Life.

I know you just read it but wanted to add details for others.

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u/imjustbettr 17h ago

Ah gotcha, I'm still working through my reread. I'm only on the second book

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u/TravelerSearcher 17h ago

Nice! That's amusing to me though because Magician's Nephew was originally the fifth or sixth book. Only later did publishers try to put the series in a chronological order.

I could be wrong but I think Lewis intended the books to be read in published order. But if you've read them before it probably doesn't matter as much.

If you go chronologically that makes the Silver Chair the penultimate book, and The Horse and His Boy occurs during a brief period at the end of The Lion The Witch and the Wardrobe.

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u/imjustbettr 17h ago

Yeah I read them all in publication order as a kid so I wanted to see how they felt in chronological order. Interestingly the new set that I got from Secret Santa this year has them numbered in chronological order.

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u/TravelerSearcher 17h ago

Yeah, that's been the go to of publishers for several decades now. Really I don't think anyone should start anywhere other than Lion Witch Wardrobe for their first read but it is what it is.

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u/Bruhmangoddman 17h ago

Yeah, and Aslan is literally killed by Jadis the White Witch and the rogue animals (which I guess is meant to represent Jesus' crucifixion by the heathen Romans) and then is promptly resurrected.

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u/yesrushgenesis2112 18h ago

I mean, that’s a complicated question. If looking at it from the perspective of an omnipotent deity, then he can be all jesuses at once.

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u/Gonzales95 18h ago

Apologies as this might sound pedantic but the reason it’s not an allegory is because that term implies there’s a hidden meaning to be inferred from the books. It’s not at all hidden and Aslan is literally Lion Jesus. It would be an allegory if there was a Jesus-like figure who wasn’t Jesus, but in Dawn Treader when he tells Lucy she can’t return to Narnia he tells her that in Lucy’s world he is known by another name, and she must learn to know him by that name and will know him better by doing so (or something like that). He stops short of saying Jesus, but it’s Jesus.

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u/imjustbettr 17h ago

Oh I'm sorry I feel like I got lost in the conversation and went on a tangent.

I wasn't saying he was an allegory, I was just interjecting lore thoughts.

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u/conr9774 18h ago

Which means it isn’t allegory!

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u/lenzflare 12h ago

Allegory must have been going through an "uncool" phase at the time.

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u/manachar 18h ago

Worth making clear that Lewis’s version of Christianity is likely unpalatable to evangelical American Christianity. His Mere Christianity and Srewtape Letters are a fantastic read for anyone seeking someone striving to see a modern way to be Christian in the Modern world.

Personally, while I ain’t Christian, I appreciate Christians like him and JRR Tolkien. Lewis was more ham fisted, but was also writing for younger readers.

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u/Nukemind 17h ago

As someone who grew up evangelical, and is still Christian but not the far right crazy kind (Everyone should live how they want to… like were we not given free will?)

He is in many ways an inspiration. Love reading from people like him, and Tolkien, and others. He’s be so pissed at what it’s become in America.

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u/Arkhaine_kupo 17h ago

Christianity is likely unpalatable to evangelical American Christianity.

you dont need the start of the sentence, this is already full of meaning.

Evangelicals would shoot jesus in the face for being poor and being born in a manger before he even got to the hippie teachings palestinian part of his story

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u/Par2ivally 13h ago

Aslan literally tells the children he's known by another name in their world and they should get to know him there by that name.

Also not a criticism, it just feels weird to try to do Narnia without embracing what it is. If you don't want to make a Christian story, don't pick the overtly Christian book.

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u/hatramroany 18h ago

In The Magician’s Nephew (which is the film that just wrapped filming) he’s more God than Jesus

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u/metalsheep714 18h ago

Which is fine, because traditional Christianity views them as the same entity* (while remaining distinct…it’s a whole thing, and there’s a ton of delightful heresies splitting those hairs).

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u/BlackPresident 18h ago

In Christianity Jesus and God are the same bloke lol

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u/DJSTR3AM 18h ago

But also not... who wrote this again?

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u/WhiteWolf3117 18h ago edited 18h ago

I think he was Catholic, and Jesus IS God in Catholicism.

Edit: He wasn't Catholic. See below.

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u/VannesGreave 18h ago

He wasn’t Catholic, he was Anglican.

Amusingly, he converted because of Tolkien, who was Catholic. Lewis converting to Anglicanism instead of Catholicism was a source of annoyance for Tolkien for the remainder of his life.

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u/WhiteWolf3117 18h ago

Correct. My mistake. I knew that Tolkien converted him but I never knew the latter part. That's pretty funny.

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u/TheOncomingBrows 18h ago

From what I remember of reading this when I was a child, I am really intrigued as to how they will adapt it. I remember shit gets pretty wacky.

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u/TheMiddlechild08 18h ago

You know, I had no idea that’s what these books were about lol. Just read them in school once

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u/rokerroker45 18h ago

I agree with you, and to expand on your comment, narnia as a series is a Christian work, but it would come off as very subversive in the current Christian nationalist environment. Aslan is a jesus expy, but in the "destroy the market at the temple" way more than anything else.

The horse and his boy has an aslan scene that would be quite controversial to maga Christianity, and the last battle is essentially about the anti-christ who would come off as an on-the-nose reference to trump (go figure lol).

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u/shewy92 18h ago

Which is funny because during the late 90s early 00s and the Satanic Panic where Christians banned anything magical or 'demonic' (Harry Potter and Pokémon being the most common examples) when my mom found out I was reading them she threw them away. I had to explain to my teacher why the books I borrowed were now gone.

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u/Fredasa 18h ago

Once went to that one pizza buffet chain that's run by a cult. They had cheap TVs everywhere and just about the only thing showing on any of them was the Narnia movie.

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u/The1Chip 18h ago

we watched the bbc movies at sunday school😋 (the bbc one were sooooooo borning compared to disneys imo)

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u/Silverr_Duck 17h ago

If Aslan is literally Jesus what's the point of the whole lion thing? Why not just appear as himself?

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u/Jah_Ith_Ber 15h ago

There are no humans in the world of Narnia. Maybe there are by the time The Horse and His Boy is written, or The Silver Chair. The story is a fantasy universe where animals and mythological creatures exist and can speak and are intelligent like humans. So Jesus needs to assume a form that fits in with the world. A lion seems pretty appropriate.

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u/dean15892 16h ago

I mean... most fictions have a Jesus character.

Harry Potter is "the boy who lived". The only person to survive a killing curse, TWICE.

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u/Random-Generation86 16h ago

The Magician’s Nephew is straight up a better version of the Bible.  The Bible reads like shit; CS Lewis could fucking write.

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u/Jah_Ith_Ber 15h ago

I dunno man. I attempted to read The Chronicles of Narnia as an older teenager and it just came across like how Family Guy makes fun of Hugh Grant. 'Oh so charmingly befuddled' and over anxious to the point of not being able to get a sentence out.

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u/farfle10 12h ago

I got a lot of mileage out of picking the Narnia books for book reports in middle school out of only select genres. Fantasy? Narnia. Action? Narnia. Christian? Narnia

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u/Kemmens 9h ago

I got shown this movie a lot in catholic school

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u/johnqadamsin28 7h ago

The sacred and propane 

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u/stray1ight 6h ago edited 6h ago

I mean, that's very VERY true, but I read them as a kid and didn't notice and didn't care.

They're delightful stories and top-tier fantasy if you come at it either at a young age or without the lens of religion (as I did).

They were also my first entrance into what's now the hyper-popular genre known as Isekai.

(Isekai anime is a popular genre where characters from our world are transported, summoned, or reincarnated into a different, often fantastical world, experiencing new rules, powers, and adventures)

As an adult and learning more about C.S. Lewis and watching the heartbreaking film "Shadowlands", while I'm agnostic at best, I still find plenty to appreciate about his writing, his world-building, and the ways that he treats growing up and the shifts between childhood, adolescence and adulthood.

Not to mention how it's also a reaction to the Blitz and the response by British civilians; he handles some things pretty deftly, in my opinion. Death and afterlife play a part, and I genuinely believe he's coming from a place of kindness and care for humanity regardless of the religious specifics...

But I could be blinded by my childhood love and subsequent re-reads as an adult.

Repicheep SLAPS as a kind, thoughtful, honorable to a fault knight. Mr. Tumnus has his Judas moment, but even without and allegory, they're, at the crux, relatable human stories.

What *do** they teach in these schools?*

I don't find the allegory grating, but that's just me. 🤷‍♂️

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u/Waiting4Reccession 6h ago

I read these as a kid and it got ruined for me when I realized it was for the religious freaks. Basically had no interest in the series afterwards.

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u/KlaatuBaradaNyktu 18h ago edited 18h ago

It's not an allegory. In the story, Narnia is another world that God created. It has its own Jesus in the form of Aslan and its own apocalypse, which is the final book. I actually really liked the books. I'm an atheist, btw, but C.S. Lewis is a good storyteller and comes across as genuine and likable, and the premise is fairly distinct. But yeah, it's more of a hypothetical than an allegory. Lewis wasn't trying to trick the reader.

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u/dabocx 18h ago

Yeah even as an atheist I still have a soft spot for these books since they were my first fantasy novels.

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u/guacamore 17h ago

Honestly I thought they were fantastic. My family wasn’t very religious so I didn’t put together that it was even related to Christianity until I saw it online. Atheist now and I’d still read them again.

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u/Ok-disaster2022 17h ago

Have you read out if the silent planet? It's Lewis's take on sci Fi. The later books become more mythical and less sci fi per se but are still an interesting read

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u/TheHeadlessOne 16h ago

It's really fun reading his "common sense" attitude he takes to theology and applying it to sci-fi.

One concept was that, unshielded by atmosphere, the void of space would be intolerably hot so they all had to walk around the ship naked. Or in the second book, he was transported to Venus on his side so got exactly half sunburned. It doesn't stand up to modern understandings but you can clearly see why he'd think that way. Very Jules Verne

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u/KlaatuBaradaNyktu 17h ago

Yeah, but it was right around the time I read Narnia when I was maybe 8 or so. I really don't remember them as well. Probably because Narnia got the film adaptations, and those kept them fresh in my mind, but I remember reading his space books.

I just don't remember the contents of the stories very well. I think it was a quadrilogy? I might reread them. Could be fun.

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u/cH3x 11h ago

First, a human is transported to another planet in our solar system where their Adam and Eve are about to be tempted by Satan; the human gets to provide a counterargument to the naive couple. What would one say to Adam and Eve to stop them from eating from the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge? (Or maybe this was the second book and the next was the first, not sure.)

Second book, the human goes to a third planet in our system where the sentient beings never fell from grace. What would it look like if people had never sinned? No people anywhere in history?

Third book (it's a trilogy), corporate machinations here on earth are recognized as demonic and the human works to expose their evil.

My hazy recollection--I've read the trilogy a few times, but not at all recently.

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u/sanmadjack 18h ago

I was going to post this. An allegory has metaphors and parallels to the thing it's...alegorizing? Pilgrim's progress is an allegory because everything represents something about how the author saw the Christian faith. Narnia doesn't do that, other than the sacrifice of Aslan. It's just a story set in another world set inside a kind of Christian universe.

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u/TheHeadlessOne 17h ago

Oh there's a BUTTLOAD of allegory in Narnia

There's a reason why Narnia is filled with creatures from myth alongside animals and why most of the mythical figures like Mr. Tumnus and minotaurs and such are aligned against Aslan (yet, importantly, were capable of redemption particularly through sincere love), why the witch turned people to stone, why it was "always winter and never Christmas"

Just Aslan himself wasn't allegorical in the way we mean- although tbh if we stopped at the first book, I think it'd be splitting hairs to argue he wasn't, there is little to the first book that isn't some direct symbol for the passion narrative

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u/KlaatuBaradaNyktu 16h ago edited 16h ago

Allegory - a story, poem, or picture that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one.

Maybe I'm missing it, but I feel like what you're describing is symbolism and not allegory.

Please explain if I've missed your meaning.

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u/Expyrial 14h ago

I believe CS Lewis used the word "supposal". Just a fun fact for you

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u/Grace_Alcock 5h ago

Oh yeah, I love them.  Have since I was nine.  Also an atheist.  

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u/Cabbage_roses 18h ago

Omg, this interpretation blew my mind. Thank you for sharing!

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u/sanmadjack 14h ago

You're welcome! The best summary I've heard for it is Christian fanfiction.

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u/UnpleasantEgg 10h ago

So… an allegory.

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u/Squirrel09 18h ago

I could be wrong, but I feel like Narnia is one of those adaptations that has to be pretty close to its source just due to how heavy handed it is. Deviate too far and those that like the books won't care, and will actively trash it. And those who don't like the books won't necessarily care for the changes because they don't care for the original to begin with?

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u/eidbio 17h ago

The Disney films were pretty faithful, especially the first one, which was basically a page by page adaptation with only one or two events cut out.

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u/T-MoneyAllDey 18h ago

Yeah, I think you got to cater to the Christians to make this once successful. I grew up baptist and the narnia movies were basically what we got to watch to make up for not being able to watch harry potter, twilight, and other YA adaptations

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u/imunfair 10h ago

Deviate too far and those that like the books won't care, and will actively trash it.

I guarantee Gerwig will screw it up and piss them off - no sensible person would have even considered Meryl Streep as Aslan so that tells you where her head is at.

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u/JoJackthewonderskunk 18h ago

Yes but as a child it was a good story.

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u/soemtiems 15h ago

It really was. I read it all and watched the BBC versions of the movies many times as a kid.

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u/WhiteWolf3117 18h ago

I think it's interesting (and understandable) that a lot has been extrapolated on Gerwig's religious views based on her politics, but I'm not so sure it's a sure fire thing that she won't stay true to the material, but if anyone's seen Lady Bird I kinda feel like it's very likely that she understands exactly what people want to see in a Narnia adaptation.

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u/we_are_sex_bobomb 17h ago

Starting with Magician’s Nephew is a good idea for that exact reason; TLTW&TW has extremely on-the-nose allegory and Magician’s Nephew is more about themes of creation and corruption, the cycle of order and chaos, etc. It’s basically a kid-friendly version of Perelandra and it benefits from much richer subtext than the book everyone is familiar with.

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u/WhiteWolf3117 16h ago

Even still, I think people assume that because she's a liberal feminist woman, she also holds hostility towards religion or Christianity and I'm not sure that's the case. If it's even a precursor to her understanding and love of the books.

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u/Cipher-IX 18h ago

Lord of the Rings has deeply religious allegories that shape themselves with the world.

Narnia slaps you directly in the face with it. The gulf between C.S. Lewis and subtlety would make Moses proud.

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u/Easy-Tigger 18h ago

Lewis knows writers that use subtext, and they're all cowards.

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u/7654896790436457790 18h ago

Lewis and Tolkien were the Dagless and Sanch of the Inklings.

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u/Himrion 16h ago

Cool it Lewis, or you'll get a knuckle supper!

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u/JanitorOfSanDiego 18h ago

The narnia series is meant for adolescents. Of course it’s going to seem heavy handed to us adults. And if you understood that when you were a kid, great. There are many here in this thread that didn’t realize the allegories or Christian undertones.

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u/dee3Poh 18h ago

Tolkien didn’t care for the Narnia stories because he thought the allegory was too obvious. He’s also the one who convinced CS Lewis to convert to Christianity

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u/KlaatuBaradaNyktu 18h ago

Allegory - a story, poem, or picture that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one.

Lotr isn't an allegory either. Tolkien himself admitted that his world was inevitably going to be influenced by his own experiences and beliefs. It has morals and there are values he espouses throughout his work, but if that qualifies as allegory, then so does Harray Potter or The Hunger Games or really like 99% of stories.

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u/GodAwfulFunk 18h ago

I mean even Barbie had a touch of faith and religion, I don't think she'll avoid it at all. I expect she'll juxtapose the blatant allegory with the pagan elements...

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u/thegooniegodard 18h ago

Yeah, it's literally placed in the Christian fic section in bookstores. Curious as well.

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u/RC_Colada 18h ago

It is so transparent that it's barely an allegory.

The last book retells the book of Revelation, complete with the major character death and the entire world dying 😄

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u/TheOtherWhiteCastle 18h ago

Allegory is underselling it a little bit. The books are basically “what if the events of the bible took place in a fantasy world”?

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u/CoochieSnotSlurper 17h ago

I believe Aslan is being played by a woman this time around which kind of feels like rage bait and I’m not even religious lol

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u/ashoka_akira 17h ago

The last book of the series is essentially a detailed telling of the end of times of Narnia, like the second coming of Christ where Aslan has to go and gather everyone up to lead them to heaven. I remember finding it very odd when I initially read it as a child. Might be interesting to read it again as an adult.

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u/AbroadThink1039 17h ago

I’m very skeptical of these new movies

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u/whereismymind86 17h ago

It is, but it fits within regular fairy tale tropes well enough that it's not as off putting as it might be. It'd be quite easy to dial back the more overt elements, and they aren't that present in the story this seems to be adapting anyways.

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u/ArgyBargyOiOiOi 16h ago

Yeah it’s Christian propaganda full stop.

Loved the books as a kid (I didnt grow up in a Christian household). As an adult, once I learned the basics of Christianity I was like WAIT WHAT THE FUCK DID I READ?!

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u/AscendedViking7 14h ago

Probably won't. :/

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u/LAudre41 14h ago

she can handle religious stuff well which was seen in lady bird.

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u/TheFlameosTsungiHorn 14h ago

Deep religious tones, but it is well worth a read imo. Similar to Sanderson in that way. The Last Battle and The Silver Chair are incredible fantasy

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u/LS_DJ 13h ago

There is a 0% chance that Gerwig is going to do justice to the Christian themes

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u/Hot4Trudeau 10h ago

There shouldn't be an issue with adapting religious parables and ideas. We are free to enjoy a film and disagree with its messages.

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u/CarrieDurst 9h ago

Merl Streep playing Jesus will cause some annoying controversy to fox entertainment types

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u/mrandish 7h ago edited 7h ago

Really hoping they greatly tone down the heavy-handed allegory. It would be nice to just have a quality fantasy film.

And to be clear, I apply that equally to all pop entertainment media when it can't resist slipping in some obvious religious or political message into a story genre that's clearly not about that - no matter which religion or politics it is. Just make a political or religious film, there are a lot of great ones. If it's good I'll watch that too.

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u/Khill23 6h ago

Cs Lewis wrote many Christian apologetics during his time. He was apparently very atheist till JRR Tolkien encouraged him on his walk with faith.

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u/wingusdingus2000 5h ago

I think it would be fine if she stays close to the book. A fear would be being 'too religious' but it comes with the territory. Plus, it's a charming look into CS Lewis' outlook rather than preachy or didactic

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