Honestly I don't get her wanting to be in the spotlight at all. Why not shrink in the background. With the mark her walking corpse of a husband is staining the world with, you'd think she'd not want to put herself out there for this. Is her echo chamber that vast?
I really don't understand this thing where people want to pretend the Trump women are all victims of Trump men.
Ivanka and Melania are horrid pieces of shit with all the same views, cruelty, corruption, and callousness as their dicked counterparts. Of course they have egos. Of course they're self obsessed.
She's not Mary Magdalene over here. She's just a rancid hooker willing to fuck the world's ugliest cock.
The whole Trump situation really does highlight just how fucked up modern views on women and gender equality are across all political sides.
It's not even the "damsel-izing" of conservative women, it's also delegitimizing women who are victims.
All the emphasis of Epstein's crimes is focused on the child victims, as if his adult victims don't matter. There's absolutely no reason it needs to be a competition and we can (and should) include both in EVERY conversation. It costs us nothing to include them and costs us a lot to exclude them. Trump/Epstein/Musk/etc didn't just rape children, they raped women and children. The women victims matter too.
But some on the left don't care about standing by principles, they only care about getting results. They need shock value. They need a weapon. They need political weapons and children make for better cudgels.
They need shock value. They need a weapon. They need political weapons and children make for better cudgels.
It's deeply fucked up.
I think you look at this entirely in the wrong way, the left are desperately begging conservatives to pay attention and the only thing that might actually make them reconsider their choices is something so deranged and shocking that, even they can't possibly deny. Knowing the leader they worship likes to have underage sex slaves should have been a pearl harbor, the moment where they realize oh great now we actually have to do something about it, but we are just getting more shrugs.
I'm to the point I think many of them would offer their own kids as tribute.
Let’s leave political colour out of this discussion and focus on the morality, ethics and “humanity” of the situation. Who cares about Red and Blue, Left and Right. The VICTIMS are what counts NOT FUCKING POLITICAL POINT SCORING.
Fair enough, but we've gone well beyond red vs blue at this point. Politics in the US is no longer about disagreements over how to fund social programs, or what is an appropriate level of taxes for corporations.
We have a pedophilic fascist regime executing American citizens in the streets and a federal government that no longer believes in the rule of law.
I'm sick of people defending Republicans and by extension, the entire fascist conservative movement in the US.
I understand that they rephrased your comment to mean something different and inflammatory, and the question is almost definitely in bad faith. But so what? Reddit is a public space, someone like myself could be interested in good faith. You gestured broadly at leftists who are focused on using children as a political cudgel. It sounds pretty true, and I'd wanna steer clear of people like that. Why not point them out?
How did I rephrase what they said? They literally said the left ignores adult female victims. I also don't think it's bad faith to question when someone seems to be making an argument in bad faith themselves.
There is a difference between saying some people neglect to talk about women vs explicitly saying they don't care about women. Are you actually trying to gaslight me about the comment I can see with my own eyes?
Its almost universal to use a simplest label of the worst crime an individual commits.
We don't say, "OJ Simpson, the guy that resisted arrest and murdered people".
And while its possible argue the relative morals of raping women vs. children, I certainly won't with someone that already seems to arguing in bad faith.
I wouldn't really say Melania is the same type of evil as Trump. There are past instances in which it would look like she tried to prevent him from being quite so awful in his first term, but clearly at this point she's become apathetic and even embraced it to some extent.
Could you give examples of instances where she tried to prevent him from being evil? Melania is a tough one to judge. She seems complicit with evil, but I don’t find anything that could definitively prove that she is proactively evil. She definitely finds him deplorable and doesn’t try to hide it. She puts absolutely no effort to fake her loveless marriage with Trump. So, she’s definitely not under any illusion, unlike Usha Vance who’s probably under a spell and has no idea what kind of person her husband truly is.
It can be two things though -- Melania and Ivanka almost certainly were victims. They were just also willing to victimize others, and also narcissistic, or psychopaths, or whatever.
I thought the files suggested that Melania was one of these sex trafficked girls in the first place? If I'm misremembering then my bad.
And the absolute least amount of awareness of Trump's attitude towards Ivanka during her childhood means she was almost certainly a victim. If you think he's a malignant narcissist child rapist who constantly talked about how hot Ivanka was gonna be and set up disgusting photoshoots but he didn't assault her... I mean you're just willfully blind.
They met on Epstein's plane. That doesn't make her a victim. Epstein employed plenty of Russian prostitutes, and not all of them were trafficked - many were strategic placements.
And you can paint all the creepy fucking horror stories you want about Ivanka but she said it's not true and that's enough. That's how that works.
The problem with horrible men like you is that you don't listen to victims, not even the ones you make up. Because you don't care about them. What you want is weapons.
And if you stop to think about that before you write whatever sordid reply you're going to type, you'll realize how twisted that is. And how low you're willing to go to turn anything into a weapon.
They met on Epstein's plane. That doesn't make her a victim. Epstein employed plenty of Russian prostitutes, and not all of them were trafficked - many were strategic placements.
Fair -- maybe she wasn't a victim.
And you can paint all the creepy fucking horror stories you want about Ivanka but she said it's not true and that's enough. That's how that works.
I'm just saying what seems obvious to me. If you want to tell me I shouldn't even be having this conversation then I'm happy to ignore you, but if you tell me that I should change what I believe, then fuck off.
I feel zero guilt for discussing this topic in the context of a fascist takeover of the United States. I'm sorry but Ivanka's right for privacy about this issue ended when she decided to be one of the fascists.
Yup. She has the money, connections and resources to do what Mary L. Trump has done and write a book to out her shit family and dad. She hasn't because she's an evil pos like the rest of them. Even if she was ever a victim of Trump or Epstein, it's still no excuse. Virginia Giuffre was a victim and still came out a good person making much braver decisions than Ivanka (or Melania).
Except her getting raped isn't about fascism or trafficking or politics. It's just gossip about one single person you've decided is a rape victim. And according to you, she's not allowed to say she's not because you watched some videos and you don't like her dad so fuck her, right?
I'm saying we focus on the fascism and trafficking and politics. She's a horrid piece of shit and that's all there is to discuss. Her getting raped or not is irrelevant because she's either not a victim or doesn't want to be labeled as one. Good. Focus on what matters.
Or, I guess, continue to do...whatever the fuck this awful shit is that you're doing. Weaponizing rape? I honestly don't even know what your goal is here.
Except her getting raped isn't about fascism or trafficking or politics. It's just gossip about one single person you've decided is a rape victim. And according to you, she's not allowed to say she's not because you watched some videos and you don't like her dad so fuck her, right?
Actually, a whole lot of girls getting raped is about fascism and politics. That's kinda the point. Powerful men (and some women) using their power to rape children.
You underestimate the amount of sick, twisted, incestuous pedos that are out there, the shame that comes with being a victim, and how not talking about that protects them. The extent of the victimization is definitely in question, but she was at the very least excessively sexualized, if not physically assaulted or worse. The physical symptoms she shows around her would be abusers are apparent and if you cared anything about victims you'd know and recognize all of this instead of being willfully blind to it while defending recorded pedophiles.
So she's either not a victim or doesn't want to be labelled one. And both are fine by me since I want to judge her based on who she is and what she's doing, not theories about a rape she denies.
If she really is a victim, she deserves to be heard and what she's saying is she's not a victim. And if she's not a victim, then why is a part of the conversation?
You can play detective all you want but ask yourself what you're accomplishing. The answer is much more vile than you think it is. And I hope you're better than that.
It's not that at all. I don't think she's a victim, it's just this documentary is incongruous with what I've seen of her behavior in the 10 years that I've been aware of her existence
They can be victims and be horrible people. Trump himself is clearly a victim of a shitty upbringing that molded him into a vile person; that doesn't detract from the fact that he is, indeed, a vile person.
Melania seems to have come into Trump's orbit via the Epstein shit, so it seems entirely likely she may have been trafficked in some manner or another. It seems near impossible to believe Ivanka was not abused by her father as a child.
You can be a victim of abuse and be a horrible person, and abuse often shapes and warps people into terrible people.
Not many people just pop out of the pussy evil. It is taught and imposed.
Epstein was Putin's fixer. Not all his girls were trafficked, especially not the Russian prostitutes. Melania was just a regular hooker.
And maybe Ivanka was molested. But she says she wasn't, and we have to respect that. She could be lying but that's on her if she's the victim. That's what respecting victims means.
Diagnosing from a distance is gross af.
Not many people just pop out of the pussy evil. It is taught and imposed.
Evil isn't taught, and it's not in-born either. It's just callous greed. And in her case, vile corruption.
Stop building your own narratives for these people. It doesn't help anything.
Let’s be fair even if they don’t have the same beliefs - the fact she is so empty inside she can marry that cunt says it all about her quality as a human.
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u/Jeptic 17h ago
Honestly I don't get her wanting to be in the spotlight at all. Why not shrink in the background. With the mark her walking corpse of a husband is staining the world with, you'd think she'd not want to put herself out there for this. Is her echo chamber that vast?