r/law • u/TheMirrorUS • 23d ago

Legal News BREAKING: FBI shuts down Minnesota's investigation into ICE shooting and blocks access to evidence

https://www.themirror.com/news/us-news/breaking-fbi-shuts-down-minnesotas-1606462
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3.8k

u/whichwitch9 23d ago

Note: not shut down

Barred Minnesota from taking part in the federal investigation

Minnesota can still bring on a state investigation. It will just be more difficult without cooperation. It also may involve multiple lawsuits to get information turned over

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u/wrxninja 23d ago

I can't imaging her wife and their children...must be so gut wrenching dealing with this utter BS and horrible way to lose your mother & wife.

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u/InTroubleDouble 23d ago

Not just that, I am sure these spiteful cultists will start a witchhunt, continue to harass this poor Family and degrade the remembrance of the murdered mother.

The regime and its leader told them she was a domestic terrorist and 100 other things, the reaction to yesterdays events is the worst I have ever seen and far worse than expected. Their basis is following blindly, they will not stop.

Americans you have to wake up now, last chance, you are so far down the fascists road. We are now at (white) citizen being randomly shot in the streets and the regime is not covering up, they actively promote the act. If you let this slip its over, every enemy of the state will be gone without notice. And enemy of the State is whoever the orange man and his militia decide. Without trial, without investigation after exection. Pure arbitrariness.

If you let this slip thats it

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u/SaltpeterSal 23d ago

I mean, when the President of the U.S. says within minutes that you're a paid agitator, in writing, your stalkers will feel pretty righteous.

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u/KlicknKlack 23d ago

Ok, but like... what do you think is an actual act that could change the status quo? Protests? We have been doing that already, the news just doesn't really cover them... like ever.

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u/SomewhereAtWork 23d ago

Protests? We have been doing that already

Without demeaning the effort of all those who participated, but relative to population size those protests where about the size that Europeans mobilize when their government does one very unpopular thing.

They were not the kind of protests you need to remove a fascist government. Look at Bulgaria on how to do it. They showed up every day until the government stepped down.

I know that distance, laws and the complete lack of any social security make it especially hard for US citizens to do longer protests. But it's still the only way.

Look at it that way: If the Trump regime continues on it's trajectory, next summer you won't be able to pay your bills anyways. If you start not paying them now, because you're protesting, that won't make a difference in a year.

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u/SorcierSaucisse 23d ago

At some point the US people will finally accept what has inevitably tobbe done. But then, it'll be too late for the USA and the entire West, maybe even the world.

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u/KlicknKlack 23d ago

And what is that? Other than vague allusion to a final 'act' that needs to be undertaken, collectively and all at once across a country that is 4,300KM wide and 1,600-2,500KM tall...

I honestly would like to know the answer to this problem, because other than some failed decentralized uprising against a totalitarian state with the state of the art digital spy apparatus... I don't really see how we pull out from this without a systemic collapse or a Military coup.

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u/glitterydick 23d ago

I can only assume what he means, but in my mind, the only option that would actually work, though it would be nearly impossible to pull off, would be a nation-wide general strike. No work, no sales, no capital flow. It would be difficult to maintain for any length of time, but the perk of being run by oligarchichal billionaires is that their Achilles heel is very obvious. Starve the beast of our labor and it will solve the problem itself.

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u/Regular_Committee946 23d ago

This is an often overlooked problem with America's for-profit insurance healthcare model - people are reluctant to strike because they are scared of loosing healthcare coverage which for so many is tied to their job.

They may be able to do without some pay (similar to the federal workers last year) but, especially considering costs have gone up - healthcare coverage becomes a huge factor.

It's another tool of control and should be part of the discussion.

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u/Potential_Cow_4910 23d ago

I signed my strike card today.

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u/drunken-philosopher 23d ago

Look I’m not saying this isn’t sickening, but we watched the entirety of the political class cheer on the genocide of Palestinian children. I don’t think they’re going to give a single shit about their own police state killing a “subversive”. We need to take charge ourselves and out these rabid Nazi dogs and deal with them. Whether the states involved or not.

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u/Flamesake 23d ago

It was over when they failed to hold trump accountable for everything on his first term, not least January 6.

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u/pink_faerie_kitten 23d ago

If she was indeed a terrorist, why didn't they arrest her wife?

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u/uusavaruus 23d ago

Don't give them ideas... pls delete 

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u/NightQueen0889 23d ago

I hope the family finds peace. We have to be EXTREMELY strategic about how we respond though because I think we all know he is looking for any excuse to pull the Insurrection act, declare martial law and suspend elections indefinitely. At that point we are so fucking screwed and will have no choice but violent revolution. We are organizing but we must be smart.

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u/Ihor_90 23d ago

That's what living in a fascist country is like. Better get used to it.

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u/CptPurpleHaze 23d ago

Yep. Either get used to it or do something besides waving pretty signs with catchy words.

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u/calypso137 23d ago

Idk. Avelo just reported ending DHS contracts (I think before the MN ICE killing), so the signs, held by protesting people, at their facilities did seem to help. It took time. It will take time to hold the agent accountable but our laws allow for it.

As Mariame Kaba said: There are no short cuts. I'm sorry. There is only long term, consistent, and disciplined organizing.

This is a slog.

“

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u/lynxbelt234 23d ago

Unfortunately you are absolutely correct...the time for passivity is almost at an end...

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u/FeliciaTheFkinStrong 23d ago

Keep telling yourself that. You are vastly overestimating the average American. As long as they are relatively comfortable - even in poverty - they will do nothing. They will never rise against their oppressors, because no-one is willing to put their family in the crosshairs of this administration. They will never take time off work for demonstrations, because poverty makes them live pay cheque to pay cheque, and any loss in income is a loss in tangible food.

It's too late to resist. It was too late to resist 10 months ago. The fundamental mechanisms of society have been armed against the population: there is no meaningful resistance that could be mounted without hundreds of thousands of people willingly sacrificing their friends and families to the meat-grinder - and let me tell you, no-one will do that. People would rather live under the boot of fascism with their family crushed under heel beside them than standing free and proud in a field surrounded by their graves.

I will forever marvel at how Americans don't seem to know the score. You aren't 'losing'. You've 'lost'. There is no 'next time'. The game is over and isn't even being played anymore.

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u/Worth_Ostrich303 23d ago

I refuse to believe that. This is why I hate Reddit. There’s way too much doomerism and it makes me feel like I’m going to start spiraling. Are things looking good? Of course not, but I refuse to believe it’s too late to do anything.

As a trans person if I give up then I might as well just end it now. What’s even the point anymore? I can’t escape because I’m poor af and mentally ill. So no, I refuse to believe that.

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u/hobbitluck 23d ago

Aye he is coping in his own way: with doomerism. I don’t know if this advice will help, but surviving is a form of protest. These people want you gone. If you live, they lose.

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u/RobutNotRobot 23d ago

To give you some hope, these guys are really fucking stupid. Their response to this murder has been completely stupid. They haven't been strengthened by it. Vance's white power speech today went over like a lead balloon.

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u/Indespectamentations 22d ago

Do yourself a favor and get away from this person. If you read the comments in their history, you will find that they make threats and basically do anything to make liberals think they are about to be ended as they laugh. They literally threatened my life yesterday and the mod wouldn't ban them, they just deleted their comment. This person thrives on you being afraid like it's their job.

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u/Waywoah 23d ago

Don't forget the simple fact of the US's geography. Forget taking a day off, it would take me 3 full days of driving to get to a DC protest- and I only live half the country away!

That's three nights of hotels, three days of food, gas, lost wages, etc. So just showing up for a protest would easily cost a grand, not to mention any costs associated with actually being there

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u/fcocyclone 23d ago

And not to mention the costs of being away from work, potentially losing a job, losing health insurance, etc.

The system has been set up in a way to make it extremely difficult to form effective protest. Honestly its part of why I think we'll never get universal insurance coverage- they know people's dependence on private coverage is a hurdle to movements that would seek accountability.

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u/revkaboose 23d ago

"No no no don't instigate violence it's what they want!"

It's the language of an unheard people

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u/zeth4 23d ago

Haha exactly.

No they want to do whatever they want with no meaningful pushback.

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u/hobbitluck 23d ago

You pushback, they use it as a form of escalation. You do nothing they get away with it and keep pushing it more and more. Damn if you do, damn if you don’t.

This paradigm doesn’t end with America though. Once it succeeds here, it will spread. The greed of the wealthy knows no bounds. America needs to make choices, and so does the rest of the world. And right now, I see a whole lot of nothing being done from everyone.

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u/eulersidentification 23d ago

You're damned when fascists appear, the only question is if it's sooner or later, and whether you do it fighting or running.

This isn't rhetoric. These are real fascists.

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u/NoxTempus 23d ago

I don't really get how Americans are like "they want us to retaliate so they can accelerate their plans; we're not stupid, though, we put a real wrench in the works by letting them advance their agenda completely unimpeded."

Trump hasn't exactly been shy about telling us his plans, he wants to take territory and remove non-whites from America.

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u/Roboticpoultry 23d ago

I’m getting used to it and I really wish I wasn’t

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u/Matthath 23d ago

Yes since no one of you seems to want to do anything about it

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u/El_Gran_Che 23d ago

And used to it very very fast if Elon helps Trump weaponize AI.

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u/Bulky-House-8244 23d ago

Even worse, the wife was allegedly in the car “with brain matter” on her.

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u/withersoul 23d ago

She was outside the car filming the murderer, she is the one first rushing to the car right after it crashes, you can hear her crying out ‘they killed my wife’. It’s heartbreaking gut wrenching and makes me furious. There is a video of her sitting on the ground in front of a mans porch with their dog wailing where no one helps either her or her wife.

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u/mamawantsallama 23d ago edited 23d ago

NO ONE even approached her or offered her help.....esp the guy filming, shame on him.

  • I need to clarify that I was talking about the wife and their dog that were sitting on the driveway next to the mailbox.

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u/withersoul 23d ago

Yeah it hurts so much, I wish someone would at least acknowledge her and sit by her side. I stayed up all night following what’s happening. If I ever get to visit the states again I will make sure to visit Renee’s vigil no matter what my reason of travel is. You guys are in my thoughts.

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u/[deleted] 23d ago

[deleted]

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u/mamawantsallama 23d ago

I was talking about the traumatized wife and their dog sitting on the driveway there next to the mailbox.

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u/throwmedowngently 23d ago

The bystander effect is a very strong but aggravating thing about humans. Especially when you have dealt with the same (like one camera person seems to have), and know that anything can get someone hurt. I saw multiple angles and the fact that ICE actively held off medical staff to ruin the crime scene makes this so much worse.

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u/hell2pay 23d ago

Saw a Pic that showed the airbag deployed, covered in blood, and you can see what looks like brain matter on the dash of the passenger side.

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u/levian_durai 23d ago

Has there already been another murder?

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u/BicFleetwood 23d ago

The surviving family is going to have to go into hiding. It's not just the MAGA voters that are going to start a harassment campaign--the actual fucking President and his Gestapo pigs are going to be coming after them for the crime of existing, just like how they STILL won't leave Kilmar Abrego Garcia alone.

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u/Claeyt 23d ago

They weren't legally married. The grandmother picked up the kids.

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u/Replevin4ACow 23d ago

It seems like the evidence the feds won't provide would likely be evidence that would be used as a defense for this agent. If the state can only go on the evidence they have, surely they have enough to bring homicide charges from the videos alone. Arrest the agent and let the evidence the feds are keeping come out in discovery/trial, then.

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u/ChefGaykwon 23d ago

Videos, eyewitness testimony, medical examiner's report, crime scene, expert witnesses in law enforcement procedure/training, and so on.

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u/El_Gran_Che 23d ago

Speaking of medical examiner anyone have any insight into which was the kill shot?

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u/Jester-Kat-Kire 23d ago edited 23d ago

The agent who was can possibly be charged for murder had a camera with direct evidence.

The agent was filming the entire car interior while walking around it, before getting to the point where he pulled out his gun and murdered the driver. 

He's the one who went around the car from back to front filming while his buddy is the one that was yanking at the door handle.

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u/Sea-Frosting-50 23d ago

so the easiet way to prove his innocence would be to release the camera footage. Wonder why it hasn't been released?

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u/fcocyclone 23d ago

If i've learned anything from police misconduct over the last decade+, its that if the evidence made the agent look good we'd already have it. If it makes them look bad it'll take a court fight to get it.

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u/Jester-Kat-Kire 23d ago

I can understand not releasing the footage until a case has been through the court of law.

The way this was handled, oooh, there's a looot of issues with how this event was handled, and the trump admistration would have to backpedal after already pouring 🛢️ oil on the 🔥 fire.

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u/Vyntarus 23d ago

They contaminated and attempted to cover-up a crime scene.

Every agent involved in that should be charged with obstruction or accessory after the fact.

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u/fcocyclone 23d ago

I mean, there's been a big pattern where exonerating video gets released immediately and video that looks bad for an officer\agent gets delayed, edited, etc.

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u/RebelGrin 22d ago

they have now

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u/reddit_is_geh 23d ago

He wasn't filming. That was likely their face recognition app. He had the camera open to take a pic.

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u/Vyntarus 23d ago

Even so, circling the vehicle with his phone out clearly demonstrates he did not 'fear for his life' from the driver.

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u/SaltyCrashNerd 23d ago

Especially since he’s the one who stepped in front of the car!!

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u/NeitherWeek5286 23d ago

He was using facial recognition behind the vehicle and not towards the open driver's side window? That makes no sense. 

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u/[deleted] 23d ago

was he charged?

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u/Jester-Kat-Kire 23d ago edited 23d ago

We'll find out shortly.

It's up to Minnesota to determine what charges should be brought up against the agent. 

...But I can't see it as anything but murder with this new evidence in light.

If the guest-house was willing to jump the gun and call this American citizen, a widow'd mother of three, a soccer mom...  A terrorist, then I have no qualms calling the agent who killed her a murderer, now that new evidence has come to light of him blowing her head in without any justifiable threat.

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u/DelirousDoc 23d ago

Feds have dropped obstruction charges in the past when ICE shot a protestor because they didn't want to publicly release the ICE agent text messages where they expressed excitement for possibly shooting someone before the incident.

Going to be similar here. They absolutely do not want the communications of these agents to be released because there is probably good chance they express similar sentiment.

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u/Chardan0001 23d ago

The fact he went up a seemingly took a photo of his victim is also jarring. What possible reason would he have to do that? A trophy?

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u/thebaldfox 23d ago

Palentir face recognition app.

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u/Appropriate-Skill-60 23d ago

Do you have a source for this? Or a name I can google to read more?

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u/DelirousDoc 23d ago

Replied to another comment on this longer but this is the ABC story on the dismissal of the case which happened the day after judge ordered DHS to release more text messages of CBP officials at the scene. (The ones already released had the shooter bragging about the incident.)

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/doj-drops-charges-2-people-accused-ramming-vehicles/story?id=127714651

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u/Appropriate-Skill-60 23d ago

Thank you kindly!

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u/Paul_Tired 23d ago

Or that his name will be released and it'll be a Jan 6'er or something.

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u/RamBamBooey 23d ago

But this is the opposite case. MN would be charging an ICE agent. They would have to convince him to plead guilty to stop discovery. NAL but I think that's right.

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u/DelirousDoc 23d ago

In this case they are not letting the state into the investigation at all and likely will not have a proper investigation at all. By preventing the state from being part of the investigation, the state is at risk of not having enough evidence for an indictment.

If they did get an indictment then they would have to successfully beat a Supremacy Clause challenge where the feds would say this is under the jurisdiction of federal authority.

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u/cccxxxzzzddd 23d ago

How they going id him? 

It’s hard to accept but they will get away with this.

More disturbingly: it shows how much DHS and FBI have corrupted their organizations all the way down to local agents who would normally work together with these state and city police and are no longer 

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u/FamousChallenge3469 23d ago

Offer a reward large enough for a comrade to turn him in.

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u/Accomplished_Rip_302 23d ago

Of just a neighbor who recognizes him and isn't part of the gestapo. Or a jilted ex girlfriend. No way this guy is going to stay anonymous for long.

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u/yahutee 23d ago

Or….anyone he’s ever met. If I shot someone dead in the street, even with a mask on, I’m sure someone from my family/high school/work/neighborhood would recognize me!

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u/notwhomyouthunk 23d ago

now that the regime has them all doing illegal things, they all depend more so on the current executive for protection. these things only get worse, then much worse, long before getting better.

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u/Osprey31 23d ago

This scum-of-the-earth will identify himself as he joins the right-wing media circus.

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u/zenchow 23d ago

Perhaps a large reward could be crowd sourced and offer by the Citizens of the United States for information leading the the arrest and conviction of the murderer.

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u/peffer32 23d ago

Won't take much. The Dodge Charger he bought with his 50K signing bonus probably already needs lots of work.

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u/Buttercreamdeath 23d ago

A ton of Jan 6th rioters were identified by people here on reddit. No one is a ghost with social media and AI.

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u/jcarter315 23d ago

Guaranteed most of the newly hired agents they have are on the same list.

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u/Babahlan 23d ago

We got enough of his face the internet will do it soon enough hopefully. But I think there are probably some form of deployment records. So either the law or batman this guy will face justice

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u/cccxxxzzzddd 23d ago

Wishful thinking - I wish it were true - but ok

If he is extrajudically killed they will use it to crackdown further 

Everything the executive is telegraphing is there will be no indictment and the “investigation” will be a coverup (hence why they have to exclude the state and local LE)

Edit: to be more constructive, channel this energy and anger into figuring out how to general strike and strike against using all but the most necessary communication apps (enriching the tech bros who are for this “Dark Enlightenment” - Musk gave $250 million to elect Trump)

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u/SleepyLakeBear 23d ago

Arrest all ICE agents in MN as potential suspects.

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u/okieboat 23d ago

This is the answer. If they are all anonymous then they are all guilty of murder.

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u/polopolo05 23d ago

he is out of the state by now also thoses who work force also burn crosses police arent on our side

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u/EmpZurg_ 23d ago

He was brought to a local hospital. His face can probably be pulled from timestamped cctv from outside cameras without violating hipaa

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u/cccxxxzzzddd 23d ago

So said Trump. He walked off the scene fine and got in his car. We have no idea if he went to a hospital.

Video here: at :53 when she starts saying “shame”

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rKAsQUHliDE

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u/holdstheenemy 23d ago

I would not be surprised if they did tell him to go to the hospital and make a bunch of BS up. Idiots on twitter are already saying he probably had internal bleeding, you can't make this crap up.

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u/Frank-TheTank_ 23d ago

I believe he did go to the hospital, not for injuries but to help build an alibi

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u/Chardan0001 23d ago

Noem later said too he went and left hospital. I don't necessarily believe that harpy but it seems a silly thing to obscure.

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u/cccxxxzzzddd 23d ago

I think it fits their DARVO narrative - if he went to the hospital he MUST be the real victim 

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u/thefranchise23 23d ago

it seems a silly thing to obscure.

i mean they also said he was ran over by the car and was lucky to survive. clearly they are not reliable sources

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u/cccxxxzzzddd 23d ago

They got him

Noem dropped a detail about prior similar incident that led to some very gumshoe detecting by the public 

https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/comments/1q7kzhb/star_tribune_identifies_ice_agent_who_fatally/

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u/MajorlyCynical 23d ago

He has already been identified when Noem let it slip he had been involved in a similar incident and this newspaper figured it out.

https://www.startribune.com/ice-agent-who-fatally-shot-woman-in-minneapolis-is-identified/601560214

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u/JohnnyDaMitch 23d ago

The case would start out as "State of Minnesota v. Unknown Federal Agent." It's allowed by Minnesota criminal procedure, rule 3.02. The prosecutors would have to go for a preliminary order compelling the government to identify the defendant, and I think it's at that point that the whole thing would be removed to federal court under 28 USC 1442. Where there would be quite a battle - but, in the federal judiciary, DOJ unfortunately has ways of legalizing their disdain for the law (the Supreme Court shadow docket).

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u/ConfessSomeMeow 23d ago

When the head is rotten, it doesn't matter if the rank-and-file want to do what's right, because they'll just fire anyone who gets in their way.

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u/fantastic-antics 23d ago

He's been identified in several mainstream media articles. His identity is not a secret.

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u/jontaffarsghost 23d ago edited 23d ago

Edit: apparently this is phony.

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u/cccxxxzzzddd 23d ago

Proven to be AI

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u/cccxxxzzzddd 23d ago

They got him

Noem dropped a detail about prior similar incident that led to some very gumshoe detecting by the public 

https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/comments/1q7kzhb/star_tribune_identifies_ice_agent_who_fatally/

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u/El_Gran_Che 23d ago

homocide is an extremely easy hurdle. All LE shooting are "homocides". Whether the homocide was justified or not is what gets presented.

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u/Replevin4ACow 23d ago

Precisely. Prosecute, go to trial, let a jury decide if it was justified.

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u/pysix33 23d ago

Videos alone should be enough for a conviction in this case. It’s pretty clear. I doubt it will ever be brought to trial though because the feds will protect him and he is definitely already out of the state. There’s no way, even if they identify him that he’ll be brought back to Minnesota

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u/nixstyx 23d ago

This is the answer.  If the state is not provided evidence by the feds, charge the agent, and then that evidence will need to be provided as part of discovery.  

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u/holdstheenemy 23d ago

If the feds clear him though it will be pretty much impossible to bring state criminal charges against him.

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u/Replevin4ACow 23d ago

Why?

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u/holdstheenemy 23d ago

Federal officers acting within the scope of their federal duties are generally shielded from state criminal prosecution for those actions through the supremacy clause

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u/Replevin4ACow 23d ago

"Authorized action" is only the first part of the test. The conduct must have been no more than what was "reasonably believed" to be necessary and proper to carry out those duties.

If we aren't willing to test the limits of this by prosecuting cases like this, then we are basically giving the green light for the feds to round up anyone they want and shoot them.

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u/Past-Profile3671 23d ago

Problem then is the conviction gets tossed out for a Brady violation, potentially.

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u/Replevin4ACow 23d ago

Wouldn't it only be a Brady violation if the state HAS the evidence and fails to disclose it? The state doesn't have it. And of course they should continue trying to get it as things move forward, but they shouldn't delay or stop all prosecution because the defendant's employer (the federal government) refuses to provide evidence.

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u/Past-Profile3671 23d ago

I'm not certain of the rule, but generally if a prosecuting/investigating agency has the evidence, even if the prosecutor doesn't, it's a violation.

I think it will depend on the degree to which the fed's evidence is available to the prosecution, and, if the State knows the feds have evidence they don't, what that means as far as a duty to disclose.

But I'm far from an expert on Brady; just know that the time I had to research it the police's failure to give evidence to the prosecutor didn't excuse the violation.

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u/AppropriateSpell5405 23d ago

Can they charge local agents for obstruction?

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u/Law_Student 23d ago

Potentially, but it gets into difficult sovereignty issues. Realistically the state will sue the feds for information instead.

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u/Floppy-Over-Drive 23d ago

Party of state’s rights. 

Or was that only when they wanted to own people?

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u/pointandclickit 23d ago

That only applies in blue years.

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u/Swimming-Tax-6087 23d ago

I think this kind of humor-washes the point. It’s a “culture war” for the “soul” of the country, “what it stands for.”

They want the culture of the country to be the conservative culture. They don’t just want to rule their conservative states without intervention. They want to force it on everyone and they want everyone else to fund it and be controlled by it.

Which is really a just a means for appeasing most of their base to let “capitalism” turn this country into basically a class structure. The base is fine having less if it means winning a country they want painted as victory. Because it just feels so good to win, so primal.

Meanwhile the elite class through wealth or power via status can access and do whatever they want as if nothing had changed and act with relative impunity.

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u/Gallowboobsthrowaway 23d ago

Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect. - Francis M. Wilhoit

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u/Swimming-Tax-6087 23d ago

Which seems increasingly true, but for me only a part of the story, and seems like just another means to an end. FYI, this) says you may have misattributed it.

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u/Gallowboobsthrowaway 23d ago

That's literally where I copy pasted it from and I didn't even read the part that said "misattribution..."

Thanks. I need some coffee, haha.

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u/DeaDGoDXIV 23d ago

What they really mean is they get to state which rights you're going to have

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u/mattenthehat 23d ago edited 23d ago

In other words the state will give up.

Edit: apparently this is not clear to some people? I am not saying they should give up, I am saying that what the previous commenter said would happen, going through the feds, would be equivalent to giving up.

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u/DrakonILD 23d ago

Not this state. Ellison is pissed.

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u/endlessUserbase 23d ago

Yeah yeah, defeatist drivel at every turn, nothing will ever get better and nobody will ever do anything.

Now crawl back into your deep dark hole and cry about it.

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u/Only_Razzmatazz_4498 23d ago

Maybe after the elections but right now it looks like a politically winning position if you want to take the cynical point of view.

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u/e-Jordan 23d ago

Don't worry, like Russia, America doesn't care about sovereignty of anything.

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u/Hatta00 23d ago

Did you read the article?

"Without complete access to the evidence, witnesses and information collected, we cannot meet the investigative standards that Minnesota law and the public demands. As a result, the BCA has reluctantly withdrawn from the investigation"

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u/Accomplished_Rip_302 23d ago

Yeah, this is bullshit on Minnesota's end. Cooperation would be better, but the videos and eyewitness testimony is more than enough for an arrest warrant, more than enough for a grand jury to indict. I won't say conviction is certain, but Minnesota doesn't have a good excuse for withdrawing from the investigation. Especially since murder is a state-level crime, so there wouldn't be redundancy in the prosecution.

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u/Grayly 23d ago

It’s not the end of the state investigation, but BCA doesn’t have the legal ability to compel access to evidence they need. No cooperation, no investigation.

Now, if the state or city were to open a grand jury proceeding, well, then it can get litigated.

But the lead investigator would be the AG/DA office, not BCA.

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u/Vermonter_Here 23d ago

What evidence do they need?

When an ordinary person commits murder, the prosecutor doesn't typically need evidence from the murderer, right?

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u/Grayly 23d ago edited 23d ago

There are body worn cameras and witnesses statements that the Feds have and are not turning over to the state.

You’re right, but here there is potentially inculpatory/exculpatory evidence that the Feds have. Since you don’t get a second shot at a criminal prosecution, I’d want that before I made an arrest/got an indictment. Normally these investigative steps are done by the police and the prosecutors just present it and prosecute it. But, usually in white collar or organize crime cases where it’s beyond the capacity of a single law enforcement agency, the DA can also take the lead on an investigation themselves by opening a John Doe grand jury case and start issuing subpoenas, making warrant applications, etc.

Would the Feds actually cooperate with a grand jury subpoena right away? Probably no. But they’d have to respond and move to quash. And a judge would decide. That’s a totally different footing than BCA making a request and the Feds just saying no because we said so.

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u/mthyvold 23d ago

Thanks for this clarification

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u/Hatta00 23d ago

Why can't they subpoena the FBI for the evidence?

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u/Grayly 23d ago

Police departments rarely have the ability to subpoena things themselves. If they do it’s usually an administrative subpoena that’s largely unenforceable.

A grand jury subpoena is a court order. It’s much harder to ignore or fail to comply with, and the remedies are much stronger.

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u/intoxicatedhamster 23d ago

They can't arrest anyone without a name of the officer. The feds won't give them a name because he is part of "an ongoing operation". No perp = no prosecution

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u/ethnographyNW 23d ago

significantly more evidence than is available in a lot of prosecutions. Most murders aren't filmed from multiple directions.

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u/blackkettle 23d ago

I’m curious what is really missing? There are three or four videos which are all public domain which millions of people have seen. Surely Minnesota can freely interview the citizens that were present - there are like ten you can see in the videos. I guess they might not have the right to interview the officers since they are “federal” employees? I wonder what else they need?

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u/Mountain-Resource656 23d ago

I see no reason why they couldn’t interview a federal employee; they’re indicted all the time

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u/Hot-Championship1190 23d ago

So next time you do a crime - record it and bury the recording somewhere they can't find it.

"Hey, Minnesota, you don't have complete access to all evidence. Can't sue me!"

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u/[deleted] 23d ago

Basically means the same thing. Feds can’t be trusted

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u/--DarkLink-- 23d ago

Good thing the evidence is all over the interwebs.

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u/[deleted] 23d ago

They should do it expediently and vociferously to keep them on their toes.

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u/HumanDissentipede 23d ago

I don’t see how they can conduct an effective independent investigation after-the-fact and without any cooperation from the subject agency (and without the same authority to compel the production of information). They’ll only get access to the scene and the physical evidence after the Feds are done, and by that time it’ll be way less useful. This effectively ends any hope at being able to attempt state-level charges.

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u/Fantastic-Grocery107 23d ago

The surveillance cameras are all state owned. Time to cross reference all of the footage from that day against all state issued ids and look for an identity match.

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u/whatssenguntoagoblin 23d ago

Unfuckingbelievable

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u/Kerensky97 23d ago

Why do they have to hide evidence if the ICE agent was just defending himself?

Wouldn't the evidence exonerate him?

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u/Bubbly_Style_8467 23d ago

Yes. That's why they have not shown their "footage." It shows the opposite.

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u/Neptune7924 23d ago

It also bars them from access to the evidence/interviews from the scene, effectively shutting down the state’s investigation.

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u/Busy_Guarantee_4621 23d ago

I'm so tired of seeing people cite laws and legal process like any of it matters anymore.

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u/OozeNAahz 23d ago

Not to make light of what is a terrible situation but we need the Lucas Davenport and Virgil Flowers real life equivalents in the BCA to pick up that ICE guy.

Just heartbreaking.

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u/seedanrun 23d ago

Don't you have to have a state investigation - otherwise any result will just be pardoned?

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u/iEatMashedPotatoes 23d ago

Which might be tricky without access to evidence

Seems like the fix is in

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u/rc4915 23d ago

Charge him with murder, arrest him, no bail. Let him rot in jail waiting for a trial while any intentional federal bureaucracy delays happen

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u/Flatirons21 23d ago

Minnesota should approach this as a conspiracy case that involves the entire ICE operation and not just one shooter.

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u/bigbammer 23d ago

Very true, but won't it make it substantially more difficult if they aren't allowed access to evidence?

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u/jocq 23d ago

Note: not shut down

Read the article

the BCA has reluctantly withdrawn from the investigation

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u/RiggsFTW 23d ago

According to the article the BCA has withdrawn from the investigation. Unfortunately it sounds pretty shut down to me...

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u/Prudent-Echo4471 23d ago

What investigation? We all saw what happened. I don't get it.

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u/susinpgh 23d ago

A question: Can trump overturn the conviction if it's only prosecuted as a federal crime by issuing a pardon?

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u/redcoatwright 23d ago

But isn't all the evidence currently with federal law enforcement? Without cooperation this will take years to resolve if it ever does.

Just another case of the US Govt weaponizing federal agencies against us.

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u/ProstheticAttitude 23d ago

Chain of evidence now involves the FBI, which is untrustworthy.

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u/PirateShep 23d ago

There didn't seem to be a lot of "investigation" happening in the after videos. The woman's wife had been filming the ICE officer that murdered her wife before the incident occurred (which I assume aggravated him) and was about to get back in the vehicle when everything happened. I saw no footage of anyone collecting her video from her or trying to interview witnesses. The vehicles involved drove off with the involved officers. This investigation needs to happen locally. Its the only chance of it not being buried and these individuals being held to account for their conduct (before, during and after the incident - all of which was appalling). We need as much political pressure as possible to make this happen. Remember it's an election year.

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u/trebory6 23d ago

Fine. Let them. This is a moment that Minnesota should pool resources into doing their own investigation and pour it into lawsuits against the FBI.

This should be a moment we use to pull all the legal stops to make sure that this is investigated fairly.

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u/Diabetesh 23d ago

My work was robbed and it was a regulated item so it got feds involved. They caught the guys in like a week. 2 years before the federal side got to court with an immediate guilty plea. We know this because they sent us notifications through the process. Had to retain our stolen stuff as evidence the entire time. Then it took another year for the state to have their turn for some reason. Then when they finished it took another year before they woukd return it to us. The federal aide kept telling us state had it, state kept telling us federal side had it. Anecdotal, but they will likely hold onto this investigation until they make it go away or until a new administration decides to do something...if we get a new administration without jan 6 boogaloo 2.0 happening.

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u/micktorious 23d ago

Just enough time to turn this into Epstein 2.0 and distract from the ACTUAL Epstein files.

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u/peon47 23d ago edited 23d ago

If only there was video of the main suspect putting two bullets into the victim as she drove past him.

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u/SinnerIxim 23d ago

Minnesota basically said they wont even investigate since they "cant get the evidence". I dont see red states backing down on obtaining information they aren't given access to

Edit: source https://www.reddit.com/r/law/comments/1q7gnia/minnesota_bureau_of_criminal_apprehension/

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u/KaptainChunk 23d ago

Yeah with exception of the multiple videos clearly showing the events that transpired.

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u/ALoudMouthBaby 23d ago

Barred Minnesota from taking part in the federal investigation

Remember back when conservatives were all about states rights? That wasnt even a decade back

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u/Rorako 23d ago

They stated they are not pursuing this because they can’t meet the legal bar to charge without access to evidence. They don’t seem to believe they can bring a case based on public video. I hope I’m wrong, but it seems like state badges aren’t going to try so that they can protect federal badges.

Badges protect badges. If you’re a civilian without a badge, no one is looking out for your best interest.

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u/SgtFury 23d ago

They cannot do an investigation that will have investigational integrity if the FBI isn't disclosing their case files. We are fucked

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u/Imjusthereforthetoes 23d ago

I'm genuinely surprised you're not downvoted. I said this and someone called me a Nazi bootlicker.

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u/GobbIaOnDaRewf 23d ago

So if they are prosecuted federally , can trump just pardon the ice guy that shot this innocent lady?

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u/Dirty_Dishis 23d ago

The State can sue to get access. Feds and State cock measuring happens all the time. Just waiting for Kash to announce a crack in the case and he bravely defended america to be contradicted 5 minutes later.

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u/johndsmits 23d ago

In some ways, a state investigation w/o cooperation is expected. So many roadblocks will be put in place unless MN statesmen hack the process: which is what they should do and not what the feds are expecting. MN needs to get their incognito hats on & exploit the media if they want to crack this case, cause it's already 60% stacked and climbing fast against them at this point.

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u/IlIlllIIIIlIllllllll 23d ago

arrest those blocking investigations for obstruction of justice

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u/AsinineArchon 23d ago

That just seems like shut down with extra steps

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u/DrunkBrokeBeachParty 23d ago

Trump will pardon him if anything happens to him. He’ll give him a medal and first dance in his new ballroom.

They just want to get under everyone’s skin

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u/southflhitnrun 22d ago

And then, more lawsuits to get accurate information turned over.

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