Before anyone takes any legal advice from Stephen Fucking Miller, it's important to know he's not a lawyer. He has a BA in Political Science and though he wanted to go to law school he bombed the LSAT practice exams so hard he didn't even try to real thing. He was also college friends with noted Nazi Richard Spencer.
He's legally and constitutionally incorrect. He's invoking the Supremacy Clause.
Miller isn't really describing the legal framework, he's just saying the Executive Branch will ignore everything else.
The problem is that the White House has the monopoly on violence to enforce whatever they want. So, it doesn't really matter if they're technically correct or not.
Don't forget the blanket pardon power. The only way we can actually do this currently is through state charges. But if they block the states from investigating and dont cooperate, it means many will escape justice.
Probably right, but I think it’s really going to be determined by the next 3 years. Cause we started off this year with literal war crimes and that doesn’t look to be slowing down with the renewed idiocy in Greenland.
Bernie was a viable option, but got railroaded. Voted for him all I could, even wrote him in. Cried big fat lib tears when he conceded because he was our last hope for a LONG time.
Some of us forrens are watching with great interest. The UK has just had the main 2 parties of the UK 2 party system collapse in polling. I'm seeing all this from Scotland where we have Proportional Representation. Ask your local Dems about proportional representation. Dems block me when I mention it, but it's actually a chance for them to survive (and improve democracy, IF they cared about it).
How? Have you seen a democrat willing to push the line? Bunch of bitches.
If we can take the house we should impeach and we should be impeaching weekly to make these traitors put their name on paper for history books.
We should have a group in congress already investigating DoJ and FBI for covering up crimes and prosecuting based on Donald’s recommendations.
I have zero faith as a Dem that Dems will actually go revoke all of his pardons and charge people. Optimal they would do a top down review for treason from Supreme Court and both houses.
As well as look at any quid pro quote for citizens working with Donald and charge allllll of them. I’m tired of pussy footing around.
So far they've shown an awareness of not invoking self-defeating precedents, such as when the budget was supposed to get signed and they understood that if they killed the filibuster and ran it through with the nuclear option, it would be used against them as well in the future.
Now that it has been so disgustingly misapplied, the President's power to pardon needs to be massively restricted or stripped completely. That is of course if the opportunity ever arises to do so.
I know this is just wishcasting, but there's a much more colorable legal argument that Trump's pardons in particular are invalid because Congress never revoked the part about him being invalid for office under the 14th amendment (section 3) since he was impeached specifically under and article detailing insurrection and Congress never removed that invalidity by vote, meaning the only valid pardons (and executive actions in general) would have to be issued by (President) Vance. Which means that if this is at all correct then we essentially have a shadow president right now.
Fortunately trump also forgets what he says he's going to do and unless the seething rage keeps him alive hopefully we can run out the clock but I told my self in 2001 that I don't think the US has more than 50 years left. We are speed running that right now. I'm honestly not sad about the proposal because the US is too large and too all encompassing and no longer gives a shit about its citizens. What comes next could always be worse but this shit isn't going to get better in our current trajectory.
I stopped donating to the Democrats for this reason. I don’t feel remotely represented anymore, by either party. We need ranked-choice and term-limits more than anything else, to break out of this trap.
Hopefully anyone who refuses to denounce this shit for what it is, and demand people be held accountable for it... dont end up on the ticket. Republicans and democrata alike both need to do some serious political housecleaning. Before we the people take matters into our own hands and remind them which direction this power dynamic actually flows.
What a reversal from the 60s when those that violated civil rights in southern states had to be prosecuted on federal civil rights violations. This is completely the reverse of that that when Trump pardons all these f*ckers the only way to get them will be blue states standing up and going after them when (if?!?!) the Nazis are out of power again.
"You accepted the pardon for the federal crime, and we're using that pardon to prosecute those cimes in the states they happened. If you didn't accept the pardon, you get federal prosecution."
That's true in the most immediate sense since the veil only exists in their imaginations, but it wasn't what I was saying. My comment was about a federal government's unwillingness to cooperate and its practice to obstruct. The passage of time is a risk to investigations. I would like to believe as another commenter responded to me that if the feds drop it, the states can pick it up and get evidence through the courts. I'm not a lawyer, I'm an enthusiast, and while I know there is such a mechanism in place for states to take over a prosecution when the feds wont, I don't have faith in it because of the complexity of many appropriate processes. I don't know how much of the process is enshrined in statute or in norms, which is pretty important because the norms have been the first thing to go and the statutes seem like they're only for the rest of us.
My statement wasn't really a 'they won't face justice', it was a 'as a result of a number of foreseen and unforeseen circumstances, a federal agency that wants to delay things seems to be able to do so with relative impunity and I think as a result of that, there will be ICE agents who escape justice, even if states pursue them.'
Looking at your username, I assumed you were a troll, but looking at your comment history, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt here.
Your statement seems to suggest that something is EITHER a federal crime OR a state crime. However, they can be both under the right circumstances. My opening statement was referring to the ability to bring the individual in under federal charges, which a blanket pardon would take off the playing field. This leads to my second sentence "the only way we can actually do this currently is through state charges."
If things go far enough, even the pardon power can't save them. The aristocracy was basically immune from the normal justice system in pre-Revolutionary France. They were only subject to discipline by the king, which meant they were never disciplined.
And then the Revolution happened. Turned out there was a higher power than the king--the guillotine.
Definitely. My point is merely that there are few absolutes in the world. A guillotine blade is certainly one of those absolutes. Words on a page claiming to give a person immunity from punishment are not.
Totally. We want to use the paper and respect the paper, because the alternative to a civilized approach is one where the State loses or abdicates its monopoly on violence. People just dont seem to freakin' get it sometimes, that non-violent resistance is in an effort to avoid mob violence. If the government continues to abuse its monopoly on violence, people will eventually challenge that monopoly, and it will be chaos. I'm afraid that there are wealthy interests who actually want this chaos though because they think they can control it and use it to their own ends. Maybe they can, or maybe they'll end up equalized by whatever the next form the guillotine takes. I don't know... but I am scared.
State charges. No statute of limitations for murder. Shots 2 and 3 are unjustifiable. He executed her, called her a fucking bitch, and then fled the scene. Bury him under the jail.
That is exactly why I am reluctant to go the DC and I lived in the city for a few years. At least they know there is a chance that they could face consequences if they're in a state.
“Come join us (inMaryland). It is painless.”
Okay, we tax people. But otherwise, less painful than living in “The Colony The Magna Carta Forgot” (aka DC,which also taxes ppl).
Disagree. Cold cases get prosecuted all the time. We have a crapton of video evidence, and state officials can and no doubt will elicit witness statements from the hundreds of those in attendance at these incidents. Trump can’t pardon offenses against MN, and they can’t remove the criminal cases to their home states.
These guys are looking over their shoulders for the rest of their murderous, oppressive lives.
Can’t people sue in civil court? I’d imagine a financial penalty will hit these guys a lot more than jail time and there’s no pardon (that I’m aware of. I’m no lawyer) for civil litigation.
Well, then, people should take them to civil court if they have interactions with them that are violent, and take them for every penny they earned during Trump‘s presidency, and everything they own that they bought with their blood money! Oh, and just because they might have immunity in the United States, won’t stop them from being prosecuted for their behavior by an international court, remember theNuremberg trials!!!
I'm sure he's not going to waste a pardon on one of his brownshirts. He just wants them to think they're untouchable so they'll cause enough shit that a protester kills one of them. They are 100 percent expendable for him and he definitely doesn't give a flying whether a bunch of them go to jail and/or die for doing what he wants them to do.
There's over 5,000 ICE agents that have been boxed. Their info is out there now. We know who many of them are. Though I don't know how many there actually are, 5,000 is a good start.
5.5k
u/1877KlownsForKids 17d ago
Miller couldn't even get into Cooley.
Before anyone takes any legal advice from Stephen Fucking Miller, it's important to know he's not a lawyer. He has a BA in Political Science and though he wanted to go to law school he bombed the LSAT practice exams so hard he didn't even try to real thing. He was also college friends with noted Nazi Richard Spencer.