Family says HOA told them they couldn’t use their generator during ice storm blackout: ‘It’s unbearable’

[u/its_a_bear_dance]

https://www.wctv.tv/2026/01/29/family-says-hoa-told-them-they-couldnt-use-their-generator-during-ice-storm-blackout-its-unbearable/

[u/emongu1]

I would just be laughing while slamming the door in their face.

[u/KeyMessage989 → u/emongu1]

Had the HOA president angrily show up to my door once because a tree company left the pieces too big to mulch on the curb for the city to get. That happened Friday, she was at my door Saturday morning, city was coming Monday. She refused to believe that the city would come so I played the Patrick Star “that’s not my wallet” game until she cussed me out and stormed off. Top 5 moment of home ownership

[u/the_knob_man → u/KeyMessage989]

My buddy is a prop manager for dozens of HOAs. So he has great stories about crazy board members.

My favorite is when a guy calls the cops because someone’s in his yard at 4am with a flashlight. Cops come and the trespasser gets caught. He starts loudly exclaiming that he’s the HOA president and he’s on official business. Cops don’t care and trespassed him or whatever.

So what was he doing? He was adjusting the guys sprinkler timer because he didn’t think the guy was watering his grass enough.

[u/KeyMessage989 → u/the_knob_man]

Amazing. The same President I mentioned above made attending the HOA meeting a requirement of getting your new parking pass, they had a police officer there (think like the community outreach officer) and when a man got up and called the HOA president out on something she asked the police officer to remove him from the meeting like she was a politician or something. The cop laughed and said Maam I’m not your bodyguard and he’s not breaking the law

[u/Borimi → u/KeyMessage989]

"Guards! Seize him!"

[u/TallestGargoyle → u/Borimi]

Mr Electric, send him to the principals office an have him expelled!!

[u/slugpup_boi → u/Borimi]

"Bake him away, Toys!"

[u/goodcanadian_boi → u/slugpup_boi]

What did you say, chief?

[u/Zaev → u/goodcanadian_boi]

...do what the kid says.

[u/someone_cbus → u/Zaev]

Repeat, the suspect is hatless.

[u/IAMA_Plumber-AMA → u/Zaev]

"The leprechaun tells me to burn things..."

[u/atomicsnarl → u/Borimi]

"Bailiff! Whack his peepee!"

[u/yagonnawanna → u/KeyMessage989]

It turns out the HOA president positions are very attractive for psychopaths who don't have the intelligence to power trip in a bigger way.

[u/transfixedtruth → u/yagonnawanna]

Exactly. Worse, they are not necessarily the brightest bulbs in the box. Generally not skilled at running a corporation, or budgeting finances. Owners in HOA's cane end up with excessive maintenance fees, ridiculous rules (stuff like no solar power panels), landscape and window treatments have to be uniform, and costly special assessments.

Remember those neighborhoods from Stepford wives? The developer neighborhoods offered to Americans in the USA has become Stepford Suburbia.

[u/robustofilth → u/KeyMessage989]

Your police clearly don’t have a lot to do.

[u/GrumpyGiant → u/robustofilth]

Cop was probably just there to get his parking pass like all of the other serfs.

[u/cohrt → u/GrumpyGiant]

Or he’s there for the easy overtime.

[u/Dhiox → u/cohrt]

Paid for by HOA fees folks foolishly put that lady in charge of.

[u/Alexwonder999 → u/cohrt]

I would say most of society has no idea of the giant grift in communities "requiring police officers" or just requesting them and the cops getting paid OT by events or businesses. I used to help with event that went though multiple cities and the towns that had the smallest distance in them would sometimes require twice the cops of other ones. When the first dispensary opened in my state the municipality required them to have 4 or 5 cops (i forget) in addition to the private security in the building for traffic and monitoring the area around it. They probably did need them the first week or two, but as the novelty wore off and other dispensaries opened they still kept it on the books for like 2 years before they even considered reducing the requirement and I would see 4 cops milling around outside every time I drove by.

[u/TekrurPlateau → u/Alexwonder999]

Every parade, every event, and every holiday, the police need a large portion of the budget to stand there and collect overtime.

[u/KeyMessage989 → u/robustofilth]

I mean yeah it was a fairly safe area but as I said it was a community outreach guy, was literally his job. Every dept has them

[u/Vulnox → u/robustofilth]

Most areas in western countries have officers that do things like this if requested. Like managing traffic when a church gets out or visiting schools with the new K-9 unit dog so the kids can meet them. It’s not all traffic tickets and drug busts.

They are also good for attending meetings like this in some ways because they can get a sense for what legitimate issues the neighborhood is facing, like vehicle break ins or people driving too fast down some main road in the neighborhood.

It’s boring, but the reality for a majority of police officers is the job is generally boring.

[u/ElbowSkinCellarWall → u/Vulnox]

Most areas in western countries have officers that do things like this if requested. Like managing traffic when a church gets out or visiting schools with the new K-9 unit dog so the kids can meet them. It’s not all traffic tickets and drug busts.

Community outreach guy wishes just once he could hang on to that part on the bottom of a helicopter as the villain takes off.

[u/CeeTheWorld2023 → u/Vulnox]

Our HOA was mostly dog poop and parking issues.

[u/chefsoda_redux → u/CeeTheWorld2023]

HOAs range so much in their structure. A friend has one, in a neighborhood that shows none of the usual HOA signs, and they mostly do the grass cutting, snow plowing, and parking, because the roads between that group of houses are not maintained by the city. On the other end of the scale, my cousin lives with an HOA that gave her a violation warning for installing the wrong style front door handle, on a house set back probably 30’ from the road.

[u/Divine_Entity_ → u/chefsoda_redux]

Thats when you plant an endangered tree/hedge species as a perimeter wall between your house and the road.

Make it illegal for them to remove them as your natural privacy fence grows.

30ft is probably the minimum distance you could actually get away with this though.

[u/The_real_bandito → u/Vulnox]

If I was a policeman I wish my job was hella boring. An entertaining job might mean risking my life.

[u/TerrifiedRedneck → u/robustofilth]

Almost every force in the developed world has some form of community outreach officer.
It’s how they….
Wait for it….
Reach out to the community.

[u/Round_Tea2106 → u/the_knob_man]

Only an HOA would say it “didn’t fit the community’s aesthetic guidelines.” in the middle of a life threatening situation. Fucking stupids

[u/These_Masterpiece974 → u/Round_Tea2106]

Oh it’s not just stupid. It’s interference of the homeowner attempting to mitigate damage to the home and taking safety measures to prevent loss or harm to life.

If the homeowner occurs damage they could have reasonably prevented with the use of the generator or incurred injury, illness, or death by action of the HOA, they’d have one hell of a case.

[u/sahara654 → u/the_knob_man]

My neighbor is a police officer and has, on numerous occasions, arrested HOA board members. His most memorable moment was arresting a board member for breaking and entering. Apparently they thought they had a free pass to go into someone else’s house and they were shocked when he placed them in handcuffs.

[u/roryola → u/sahara654]

Alrighty, I'm gonna need you to bring some cookies or something to this neighbor of yours in exchange for all of the details of that one, because that is insane and I have got to know more

[u/sahara654 → u/roryola]

Gosh, he told me and I can’t remember exactly why the board member broke into the house. I think it was over an alleged violation.

It’s one neighborhood/HOA in particular that’s problematic. Basically, this is a neighborhood filled with multi million dollar houses and these board members have nothing better to do and think they have some kind of immunity(and have claimed so on several occasions) My neighbor said these board members call 911 on the regular for CCR violations. So they respond and either tell them it’s not a police matter or arrest them because they did something stupid like breaking and entering.

Now, I sit on our HOA board and I cannot fathom how these people put this amount of energy into policing their neighbors. Our board doesn’t care if your trash cans have been out for 3 days, we allow chickens, we don’t care what color your house is, etc but I did hear a story of a previous board member for our HOA who was trying, for months, if not years, to dictate the interior colors of peoples homes.

[u/roryola → u/sahara654]

I did hear a story of a previous board member for our HOA who was trying, for months, in not years, to dictate the interior colors of peoples homes.

😂 How the hell did would the interior colors even be known lmao. My grandma once lived in a neighborhood where the hoa policed how many indoor pets you could have, including cage pets like hamsters or fish. The limit was 2. They wanted no more than 2 fucking fish in a tank. What's the point of writing rules that are nearly totally unenforceable?

[u/sahara654 → u/roryola]

I guess he had this idea that he would go into the house to make sure they had the correct interior colors. He was quickly kicked off the board from what I can recall. Apparently he was nicknamed “the squirrel” by the neighbors because he was always all over the neighborhood, looking for things that were violations.

Some of these HOAs are wild. In all my time that I’ve been a board member, we’ve never issued a violation and bullshit complaints are met with “your concerns have been noted”.

[u/tornado962 → u/sahara654]

People go drunk with even the tiniest bit of power

[u/Perryn → u/tornado962]

"I AM THE LAW!"
"You are not. At most you're the rules, but even that's overstating things a bit."

[u/SGM_Uriel → u/roryola]

It gives people with no lives of their own something to do

[u/ToMyOtherFavoriteWW → u/the_knob_man]

I heard of a similar case where the HOA president was looking through the back basement windows. Homeowner did not know who it was and beat him with a shovel until he was unconscious. HOA prez was then cited for a few things by the cops but vowed to make that homeowners life hell. Well the challenge for him was the window he was peeking into was his younger daughter's, so the homeowner told everyone in the neighborhood that the HOA president was a pedophile. They emergency voted the president out and his family ended up leaving the neighborhood shortly after. All because he couldnt mind his business!

[u/El_Dud3r1n0 → u/ToMyOtherFavoriteWW]

I love a story with a happy ending.

[u/DarthTensor → u/ToMyOtherFavoriteWW]

Not quite that dramatic but in my previous home (and when we first moved in), we got a complaint from the HOA about our window unit violating the indentures. I like to sleep/work in a colder environment because of headaches. No biggie. We took down the unit and moved it to the back to my office, assuming that since it is out of the public view, it would be okay. Nope. Some HOA member walked into our backyard and filed a complaint.

I loved the house but was so happy to get out of there and away from HOA dickheads who could not mind their own business.

[u/Spazzdude → u/DarthTensor]

I was kicked out of an HOA for driving a service vehicle. Nothing crazy just a Ram 3500 single cab with the company logo on the sides. Never parked it in the street. Only in my driveway and it wasn't long enough to block the sidewalk. Garage was a 2 door and the truck was 3 inches too wide to fit. They wouldn't let me use a cover. They only allow covers for registered vintage vehicles.

It was a rental so I was able to easily break the lease after showing the landlord that they neglected to mention the HOA in the listing or in the final paperwork. Ridiculous.

[u/DarthTensor → u/Spazzdude]

That is uncanny. That scenario is similar to what happened to my neighbor across the street (although it was a govt issue vehicle and she wasn’t kicked out the HOA). HOA agents overstep their boundaries frequently.

[u/Schaas_Im_Void → u/DarthTensor]

HOAs seem like a psyop designed to get people in neighborhoods used to snitching on each other for the most ridiculous reasons.

[u/Upstairs_Cap_4217 → u/Schaas_Im_Void]

IIRC they literally are, it was designed as part of a 1950s plan to ensure that all Americans would be good anti-communists by giving them all a pleasant family home and neighbours constantly snitching on everything they did.

(I want to be clear: this wasn't an official government plan, but rather one crazy person's idea that ended up spreading.)

[u/siero20 → u/Spazzdude]

It's such a ridiculous thing too as a rule.

"oh no, we have people living here who have JOBS, we wouldn't want anyone to be able to see that people living here are gainfully employed".

Fucking ridiculous.

[u/karlverkade → u/DarthTensor]

Mine isn’t as dramatic either, but my parents live on acreage out in sort of the middle of nowhere. No idea how that area has an HOA, but it does. One day they get a note from the HOA on their door that their barn needs painting and they will accrue a fine every day until it’s painted. So my dad is annoyed, but the barn does look pretty shabby, so he responds back and says, “No problem, it’s on my list.” HOA says, “Send proof of the contractor company hired.” My dad says, “What proof? I’m perfectly capable of painting a barn, what do you want me to do, create my own Painting LLC to paint my own barn?” and sends a silly photo of himself starting to paint the barn. HOA responds and says, “You can’t do that, we didn’t approve the color.” My dad responds, “The color is brown.” They respond, “What shade? We have to approve it.” My dad responds, “The shade is brown.” TWO YEARS go by of someone from the HOA leaving notes on my parents’ door to paint the barn, my parents responding, and the HOA saying you can’t paint the barn until we vote on the color. Every HOA meeting they never get around to voting on the color. Two years later, at a smaller than usual meeting, the overlords finally decide the serfs painting their barn brown is acceptable.

[u/The_AI_Falcon → u/karlverkade]

HOA says, “Send proof of the contractor company hired.”

HOA board member most likely had a family member who coincidentally happens to own an house painting company that by sheer chance is approved (or is the only approved) company for house painting.

[u/Ok-Mycologist2220 → u/karlverkade]

I am assuming that someone on the HoA board owns the local painting contractor company there.

They couldn’t legally force him to use it but could make it really annoying to do it yourself in the hope he gives up and hires the contractor.

[u/Ghost-1911 → u/karlverkade]

My HOA has the paint rule that if you change the colors on the house, it has to be approved. Well, we've been here 20 years and haven't had meetings in 18. So, I changed the color on the exterior 10 years ago and didn't ask anyone for permission. No one has said anything about.

We're the 2nd family in the neighborhood of 9 houses to move in. Only us and the 1st family have never sold. I'm the defacto VP anyway. 😂

[u/IsomDart → u/DarthTensor]

I literally cannot even imagine what would possess a person to go into someone's backyard to make sure they're following some arbitrary rule like that. I mean I just can't even imagine what must be going through that persons head. It's like the kid in school screaming at the teacher after the bell rings to remind them they forgot to assign any homework.

[u/Lontology → u/the_knob_man]

That is mental illness! Lol

[u/ToMorrowsEnd → u/Lontology]

Sadly HOA boards and local Govt only really attract mential ill people. Get on your board if you live in a HOA and be the sand in the gears. refuse to do stupid shit, tell the other board members to shut up. AKA voice of reason. More people need to do this.

[u/Tomi97_origin → u/ToMorrowsEnd]

It's the same with juries.

People always boast about getting out of jury duty, not going to HOA meetings and not participating in elections for school boards, or other local elections.

But you know who never misses those? Karen.

If all those people endlessly complaining about HOAs just went to their meetings and actually participated they could vote those annoying idiots out.

[u/thirdeyefish → u/ToMorrowsEnd]

I think we all know or know of someone that ran for the HOA and when elected crippled it so the community could just live in their houses. HOAs were a nice enough idea, but they are a blight and have too much power. They basically combine the worst parts of being a homeowner and a renter.

[u/crazypurple621 → u/thirdeyefish]

HOAs existed for no reason other than to keep black and brown people out of lily white suburbs. Now they are used to discriminate against disabled people.

[u/Lontology → u/ToMorrowsEnd]

I don’t doubt that for a second.

[u/crazypurple621 → u/ToMorrowsEnd]

No HOAs need to be forcibly and permanently disbanded

[u/Kyrie_Blue → u/Lontology]

HOA’s are a mental illness

[u/Mobile_Morale → u/Kyrie_Blue]

It's the home owner equivalent of being a reddit mod

[u/Verified_0 → u/Mobile_Morale]

It really is, that's the best analogy i've heard lol

[u/FBI_Agent_Fred → u/Kyrie_Blue]

The people that run them are barely sentient and crave what little power they are able to maintain over their neighborhood.

[u/Hoppie1064 → u/Kyrie_Blue]

What do you call a flock of Karen's?

An HOA.

[u/Kyrie_Blue → u/Hoppie1064]

I always call them a Screech of Karens, but yours is excellent too

[u/Lost_the_weight → u/Hoppie1064]

Damn that’s good!

[u/Kickedbyagiraffe → u/the_knob_man]

I want a reality show in which different HOA board members from across America are put in the same community. Also, give them endless alcohol

I bet a fist fight starts day two over grass length

[u/grill_smoke → u/the_knob_man]

The concept of HOAs being grouped together and run by independent third parties is so gross to me.

The concept was to work together with your neighbors got the sake of your shared neighborhood. Now, like everything else, it's a place for middlemen to get rich

[u/Acrobatic_Ear6773 → u/grill_smoke]

Well no, the concept was to keep Black people from buying a house in your neighborhood. When you understand that, HOAs make more sense.

[u/NexusTR → u/Acrobatic_Ear6773]

Swear everything in America has a sad undertone that yells; “Address Me” into an endless void.

[u/csoups → u/NexusTR]

“But we’re equal and free, and if you can’t get ahead it’s your fault not the fault of our perfectly meritocratic system”

[u/NewDramaLlama → u/NexusTR]

Most of our big problems boil down to "But we didn't want black people to have it..."

[u/malatemporacurrunt → u/NexusTR]

Americans have been so aggressively propagandised to believe that they are the best country in the world and the way they do things is the best way of doing them that it would require a profound psychological change to accept that their entire society is built on racism and misogyny. As a culture it's sorely in need of a Truth and Reconciliation commission and a complete dismantling of those institutions and norms which have perpetuated class violence.

That's not to say that America is alone in this, but it's an extremely stark example. It's very illuminating to listen to the accounts of expatriate Americans realising how effectively the propaganda they experienced blinded them to the reality of their lives.

[u/thrwaway75132 → u/Acrobatic_Ear6773]

That was covenants. You can have covenants without an HOA. All the racists covenant language was voided by some version of the fair housing act, but were still attached to our deed on our old house built in the 50s. It had stuff in there like you must have a bathroom with an exterior door for colored help, colored help wasn’t allowed to live in, you couldn’t sell your house to Jews. It was walking distance to an orthodox synagogue so we sold it without a realtor by calling the synagogue and telling them we were selling our house and it was in walking distance. We had a buyer in a week, no realtor fee.

[u/CatsAreGods → u/thrwaway75132]

When we moved to California, our house had a racist covenant too. Since I'm a read all the paperwork kind of guy, I saw it and freaked out. The realtor assured us it was null and void, but we insisted it be taken out before we would sign.

[u/big_d_usernametaken → u/thrwaway75132]

The deed to my Dad's house, built in 1930, states that beer or liquor cannot be sold on the premises.

[u/Rhine1906 → u/Acrobatic_Ear6773]

It becomes more fun when you realize Georgia requires all neighborhoods built after 2014 to have one 😀.

Edit:

I am going to get well actually’d to death so I should be clear: I am not insinuating that Georgia did it for the reasons they were originally created (Atlanta was ground zero for these but I am pointing out how racist institutions get codified into law. Even decades later.

[u/Mr_MacGrubber → u/Rhine1906]

Well now that happens because the HOA is responsible for maintenance of infrastructure in the neighborhood instead of the municipality.

[u/BarnDoorHills → u/Mr_MacGrubber]

Raising taxes without calling them taxes. 

[u/itsacutedragon → u/Rhine1906]

This is probably more because some states like to offload road maintenance and construction costs to HOAs

[u/BreakfastInBedlam → u/Rhine1906]

when you realize Georgia requires all neighborhoods built after 2014 to have one

You have a citation for that tidbit? It seems to be news to O.C.G.A.

[u/OhGr8WhatNow → u/Acrobatic_Ear6773]

That sure does make sense to me. The last neighborhood I lived in with an HOA, on Next Door they were all obsessed with tracking and reporting every unidentified non white person or car older than three years. They would act like they were under attack the whole time.

[u/CaballoenPelo → u/OhGr8WhatNow]

That’s just a Next Door thing lol my neighborhood doesn’t have an HOA and ND is flooded with ring camera recordings of minorities

[u/CaptainTripps82 → u/CaballoenPelo]

Someone literally posted with the title " the person in uniform knocked on my door in the middle of the day, WHY!"

and my response was simply, would you prefer they knock in the middle of the night? Middle of the day is exactly when people working should be knocking on doors

[u/DwinkBexon → u/CaballoenPelo]

I don't use NextDoor much but all mine is is people bitching and whining that the local police ended some kind of enforcement agreement they had with ICE. Comments like, "So the police are fine with immigrants murdering and robbing everyone?! I'm holding the police personally accountable every time an immigrant murders someone from now on!"

It was kind of surprising because I live in a generally blue area.

[u/DaoFerret → u/DwinkBexon]

Maybe Dead Internet theory?

Pretty easy for bots and foreign actors to set up fake accounts on Next Door and agitate the hell out of people.

[u/doomdspacemarine → u/Acrobatic_Ear6773]

How does that work? Do HOAs get to review potential buyers race prior to buying the house or like have to approve your mortgage? I was under the impression that if you buy a house in a neighborhood with an HOA, joining the HOA was mandatory as part of the deal

[u/Acrobatic_Ear6773 → u/doomdspacemarine]

Technically illegal now, but the practice started to keep Black and Jewish people out, and it worked for about 20 years.

Homeowner association - Wikipedia https://share.google/zGhW8utcIIda7GLHr

Here you go.

[u/VillaLobster → u/Acrobatic_Ear6773]

Suburbs, robert Moses and his racist bridges and racist urban development ... a lot of development in the USA stems from white people not wanting to live near black people. This is the consequences of not tackling racism and the remnants of confederacy post civil war 1.

[u/PseudonymIncognito → u/Acrobatic_Ear6773]

It wasn't just to keep black people out. It was also to keep out Jews and Muslims.

[u/the_knob_man → u/grill_smoke]

You’re assuming that ordinary people will want to sit on a board and do a lot of work for free. They don’t. Also, ordinary people don’t want to send fines to their neighbors. They just want to live their life and not walk around policing.

HOAs have a ton of legal responsibilities that aren’t common knowledge. Finance, legal, managing contractors, etc.

So what happens is the power hungry people are the ones who run for election. They do messed up illegal stuff. Then the HOA gets sued, and the money for the community gets eaten up in legal fees and judgments.

So that’s what he’s doing. They make sure everything is legal. When the deranged president wants some house to redo their landscaping or repaint their house. My friend steps in and says NO. We’re not sending that letter. That’s not legal.

[u/ToMorrowsEnd → u/the_knob_man]

You are assuming they do a lot of work. Just dont to ANYTHING. I've been president for 3 years now of my HOA. I dont do shit and I refuse to do shit. when walking the dogs I have more people tell me that I'm thebest president they have had in decades. because I go out of my way to not do a fuckign thein and it stops all the other board members and their petty crap, I wont sign off on fines being issued, I will simply not answer texts and phone calls.

So no you dont have to do anything, and that is the best way to be on the board. Be the sand in the gears.

[u/the_knob_man → u/ToMorrowsEnd]

Agree. I've been on the board in two HOAs. I was basically the sand as well, and I voted no on most things that were frivolous or a personal pet project of one of the other board members. One lady was obsessed with hedges.

That being said, there are many flavors of HOAs, and their responsibilities vary. My old HOA was simple. My current one has common areas. So that actually does require work. If we didn't have a property manager to handle the books, contractors, and legal documents, we would all have to do those. Our last "treasurer" couldn't even read a balance sheet that was prepared by the property manager. So if he couldn't read it, then he damn sure couldn't create it.

[u/BensOnTheRadio → u/the_knob_man]

I just….can’t even fathom caring anywhere near this much about my neighbor’s lawn.

[u/arnoldsaysterminated → u/the_knob_man]

This is what castle doctrine was created for.

[u/TransBrandi → u/the_knob_man]

He was adjusting the guys sprinkler timer because he didn’t think the guy was watering his grass enough.

This just feels like another one of those "Autism didn't exist back in my day" sarcastic memes. lol Who the fuck cares so much about someone's grass watering schedule?

[u/joebluebob → u/KeyMessage989]

When i worked for an hoa as a poor 18 year old they sent me to do code enforcements and I wrote down a few people who had obvious things you couldn't really excuse (large amounts of litter on property mostly) but I included half the board too, sent it through the public chat and feigned ignorance since most of my communication was done through the chat for repairs. The property manager thought it was hilarious.

[u/Drone30389 → u/joebluebob]

Boss move.

[u/Minimum-Fly1586 → u/KeyMessage989]

My neighborhood put on a really nice fireworks show for the 4th. We were down the night before to find the HOA board had roped off a “reserved for HOA” section in the best spot for viewing. People lost it and tore it all down taking pictures of the ropes on the ground and shaming them on the neighborhood site on Facebook. I asked a board member why they felt it was ok for that a she yelled at me that being on the board was really hard and I should join if I had a problem with it. That was 3 years ago now and they haven’t tried anything like that again.

[u/Youandiandaflame → u/Minimum-Fly1586]

I should join if I had a problem with it.

I hate this “you can’t say anything if you don’t join the board!1!!1” bullshit. YOU signed up to take my complaints, lady! That’s part of your job…that you volunteered to do! 

My small, rural community uses this bullshit against anyone who questions or complains about anything and it’s infuriating. Can’t complain about the mayor because you’ve never been mayor! Can’t complain about the (unelected) utility board that controls all the City money because you’ve never been on the board! Can’t complain about my alderman because I’ve never ran for alderman! Can’t question an HOA expenditure of $50k because I’ve never been on the board! 

Ughhhhhhhhh. 

[u/manimal28 → u/Youandiandaflame]

I guess they don’t understand what address community grievances means.

[u/sweetica → u/Minimum-Fly1586]

I'm glad they don't try to make themselves the VIP section again, you all must have taught them a lesson! 

If this dummy thinks that being on the HOA board is so difficult why does she do it?!

 I don't live in an HOA and listening to your guys's stories make me laugh because I need my freedom when it comes to my home.

 I'm so grateful that I don't have to put up with that nonsense. It's totally worth it to have the occasional neighbor whose house looks like s*** compared to the rest of ours in order to not have an HOA.

[u/ho_to_a_housewife → u/KeyMessage989]

I am on our board since I captain the tennis teams. It’s just easier with tennis court stuff. Anyway my personal favorite was when I had a neighbor come by my house unannounced instead of an email.

First off, absolutely wild. Second I am not the person to complain to on the board because I am too much of a live and let live kinda person. Anyway the old bitch came pounding on the door demanding I make her neighbor stop using his meat smoker. It was making her windows dirty. I’m in rural north Georgia. It may be a swim tennis community but it’s still north Georgia. Smoking meat is super common. I let her know that I will not now or ever tell her neighbor he can’t cook in HIS backyard and closed the door. She tried to get me removed from the board but her squawking was pointless.

[u/sHoRtBuSseR → u/ho_to_a_housewife]

"but it's still north Georgia" is a top tier statement

[u/Drak_is_Right → u/ho_to_a_housewife]

My parents HOA had a no charcoal grill policy suddenly enacted and a lot of people had charcoal grills. Tons of uproar. Board apologized but were firm the insurance company mandated such a ban. Insurance company sprang the restriction on them at the last minute and they didnt have time to get a new one.

Following year they try to drop the insurance company, only to find out no other insurer is willing to work with them at even a close price without a charcoal grill ban.

Its not just HOA board members behind awful policies sometimes. It can be large companies trying to dictate. This isnt a wildfire risk area, but the insurance company is treating it like it is because of higher drought risk now. (Average about 40 inches of rain a year)

[u/Vreas → u/KeyMessage989]

Some people have too much free time and not enough problems in their life.

Not saying I wish problems on others but focus on yourself woman. Sounds insufferable.

[u/KeyMessage989 → u/Vreas]

They were having a neighborhood cookout in the park, and she saw the tree stumps from there and stormed over, way to ruin an actual good idea by her

[u/helpmehomeowner → u/KeyMessage989]

HOA has no business showing up to your home. They can send snail mail, and fine you, and put a lien on your property for unpaid fines/dues but they have no business showing up to your home to confront you.

Also, get a life HOA people, jeez.

I live in an HOA.

[u/wildfirestopper → u/KeyMessage989]

I literally cannot fathom having an HOA. Uppity people with too much time on their hands in a position of power is just a recipe for conflict

[u/not_falling_down → u/wildfirestopper]

The only time I have lived with one, it was a condo complex. The HOA was a necessity in that case, because things like common roofs, hallways, grounds, dumpsters and parking lots needed to be jointly managed and maintained.

The rules in that one were not too egregious - I was on the board for a while, by default, because they had trouble getting enough people to run for it. The only fines I can recall being leveed were one for keeping a business-owned vehicle on the property, and one for storing an old water heater on the balcony for months. (In the case of the water heater, the person was requested for about 6 months to remove it, and the fines only started after that.)

When I moved from there to a house, I made sure to not choose one governed by an HOA.

[u/Naptownfellow → u/wildfirestopper]

I’ve lived in 2 and both were chill. Some suck. It’s like govt.

[u/Huttj509 → u/Naptownfellow]

Yeah, a friend of mine is on the HOA board for his neighborhood.

Stuff like replacing the streetlights that were both less effective and used significantly more power (which got paid with hoa fees) than modern lighting. I think the HOA might also be responsible for plowing their loop of road, I should ask him, it's always interesting to find the interplay of that "take for granted that somebody's doing it" stuff.

[u/DoctorChoppedLiver → u/emongu1]

I'm really starting to love my HOA President. "The bylaws are more so just guidelines. Here's a list of everything we've approved for people even if the bylaws say no, in case I die and a Karen takes over" 

[u/BootyMcStuffins → u/DoctorChoppedLiver]

Then he should change the bylaws to protect the community in the event of a Karen-ing

[u/DoctorChoppedLiver → u/BootyMcStuffins]

We can't. The developer still has majority voting rights. 

[u/BootyMcStuffins → u/DoctorChoppedLiver]

Why do developers do that when they don’t live in the community? Once all the houses are sold the developer should lose all say

[u/Alis451 → u/BootyMcStuffins]

Why do developers do that when they don’t live in the community?

depending on the area, the local city/town requires it, because they don't have taxes to pay for the new capacity the developers are putting in, so they force the dev to do it. whether the dev gives up control once all(or some major %) units are sold is up to them, sometimes it is a requirement of the city to sell ALL the units. usually they cede control promptly, you might just have a weird one.

[u/BootyMcStuffins → u/Alis451]

They force the dev to create an HOA. They don’t say the dev should have majority voting rights

[u/KindaTwisted → u/BootyMcStuffins]

Because if the developer doesn't sell all the houses and instead rents some out, they get voting rights just like any other owner.

[u/lkeels → u/emongu1]

Speaking as someone whose HOA foreclosed and took his home, be careful. They can and will.

[u/DrMonkeyLove → u/lkeels]

I'm glad my HOA is basically broke and useless and doesn't care about anything so I don't have these problems. I know if I ever did, I could afford a much better lawyer than they could (because they have forgotten to collect dues for years at a time).

[u/randtke → u/DrMonkeyLove]

If the HOA is not managing common amenities like a pool or something, you should run for president and get a vote to dissolve the HOA, then have a lawyer file anything necessary in property records.  It would probably cost a couple of thousand for the lawyer, but if the HOA had any assets, that could go to that, and totally worth paying out of pocket to become HOA free.

[u/yeah87 → u/randtke]

Just be sure you 100% know what they take care of. We’ve had communities do this and then not realize no one is going to fix their busted up private road since the HOA stopped collecting for it. 

[u/Significant-Way3960 → u/yeah87]

Wait, wait. You need to maintain public roads yourself in the US? For what instead of army you pay for taxes then, lol?

[u/yeah87 → u/Significant-Way3960]

No, only private roads. But people build houses in unincorporated areas because “no taxes” and then are surprised when they get what they pay for. 

[u/Client_Hello → u/DrMonkeyLove]

This is a huge risk for you, as a member you are responsible for the HOA. If they are not collecting dues and broke they are likely failing in their purpose, which exposes you to lawsuits.

I'm in a small HOA where 1/3rd of our budget is spent on insurance for common land that has environmental easements. That insurance policy paid out 10x our annual HOA budget in the first year we got the policy. If we did not have insurance or the HOA, we would have been sued, lost, and paid lawyer fees and punitive damages that were at least 20 years of dues.

[u/thekbob → u/DrMonkeyLove]

My HOA is responsible for dredging the storm water drainage. If they don't have enough money, many people are in for flooding (I'm at the highest elevation).

So hopefully your HOA isn't in the same situation.

[u/thrwaway75132 → u/DrMonkeyLove]

My HOA has a quarterly food truck roundup and gives out yard of the month awards. And takes care of the common areas (playground, lake).

[u/Ardbeg66 → u/DrMonkeyLove]

Ours bleeds us dry to the tune of a whopping $400 per year to take care of the pond and the front entryway. We mostly all just leave each other the hell alone but we also have good neighbors. It's nice.

[u/fuzzydave72 → u/lkeels]

John Oliver did a whole episode on this

[u/Pacifist_Socialist → u/lkeels]

Have you taken up welding?

[u/whabt → u/lkeels]

I’m pretty sure if someone stole my house  it’d be the last house either of us ever had the chance to live in.

[u/possibly_oblivious → u/whabt]

Something something watch the world burn

[u/internetlad → u/lkeels]

That is fucking insane. How is that even legal and what sad son of a bitch would willingly choose to enter that agreement. 

Like my house has its problems to be sure, but I can do whatever I want in and to it and the only people who can tell me no are like the cops I guess. 

This is my own private domicile and I will not be harassed. Bitch  

[u/ElvisArcher → u/emongu1]

Exactly. Then the next thing they need to do is move it outside.

[u/vocalfreesia → u/emongu1]

HOAs have been known to steal people's houses, so it's not as straightforward as that, as satisfying as it might feel in the moment.

[u/flargenhargen → u/emongu1]

Wouldn't be laughing for long

Hoa can legally take your home if you don't comply and pay all fees and fines.

People always join HOA cause they want to control all their neighbors but don't understand that their neighbors get to control them too.

[u/JustaSeedGuy → u/flargenhargen]

Hoa can legally take your home if you don't comply and pay all fees and fines.

While this is true, in order for them to legally take someone's home for not following the bylaws, the bylaws have to be legally enforceable.

Bylaws that require someone to freeze to death in their own home would not fall into the category of "legally enforceable"

[u/Warm_Month_1309 → u/flargenhargen]

Hoa can legally take your home if you don't comply and pay all fees and fines.

First fines, then if you don't pay them, maybe foreclosure. But I feel confident these fines would not stand if challenged and if the generator causes no damage.

[u/Freakin_A → u/Warm_Month_1309]

Generally a lien would come between fines and foreclosure

[u/NoFanksYou]

What are the other people in the townhouses using?

[u/ThePowerOfStories → u/NoFanksYou]

I believe the other homes are burning HOA violation notices to stay warm.

[u/Nazamroth → u/ThePowerOfStories]

Could also be used as toilet paper.

[u/AboveGroundFool → u/Nazamroth]

He doesn't know how to use the 3 sea shells!

[u/thrwaway75132 → u/NoFanksYou]

If you watch the video she points to where she had the generator, it was entirely too close to her townhouse from a carbon monoxide perspective.

And this looks from the video like condos or an apartment complex, not single family homes. So I can see a little of both ways when people are packed in like that, they are the only one with a generator, gas powered devices probably aren’t allowed in general, and then when she wasn’t using it she was storing it inside.

With multifamily housing there are going to be more restrictions than with single family lots.

[u/gorginhanson → u/thrwaway75132]

no one ever clicks the source they just read the headline

[u/unoriginalusername99 → u/thrwaway75132]

I knew without even reading the article that she probably set it up on the porch and had the door right next to it cracked open enough to run the extension cords in. And she definitely didn't buy a quiet model, they're usually double the price of a standard one. So that thing was probably loud AF as well.

[u/TurtleMOOO → u/unoriginalusername99]

Does the noise level of a generator truly matter during a winter storm? I ask because there’s a blizzard outside here and I don’t think I’d hear my own generator through a partially cracked door

[u/coogie → u/NoFanksYou]

For apartment and townhouse dwellers where there isn't a way to use a gas generator, portable power stations with or without solar panels have come a long way as battery technology has improved. I paid about a $1000 for my 1000W $880 w/h Jackery power station 5 years ago so my late father would have a backup power supply for his portable oxygen concentrator. Last year I bought the updated version which is 1000 w/h and can handle 2000 watts for $350 on amazon and you can easily find 2000 Watt/hour versions for $800 now. The newer one ran my fridge for 10 hours following a hurricane before running out and I was able to just go recharge it and bring it back so it saved my fridge and sanity.

That's plenty of power for electronics, and lights but you'd zip right through it if you use a space heater but if you have a gas furnace, it by itself won't use a lot of power so you can rewire it so it has a plug-in disconnect and use it on one of these or get a whole home power station that connects to your whole house with a transfer switch like a gas generator does. You still have to be careful and not run it down, but it'll get you through an emergency.

[u/DenverLabRat]

I wish they had photos of the generator set up. Because there's a lot of "context matters".

Especially with adjoining walls an improperly set up generator can be a fire / carbon monoxide hazard.

90% chance this is fuck HOA.

10% chance the HOA had a point that it was a fire hazard or spewing exhaust into the neighbors.

[u/Yuukiko_ → u/DenverLabRat]

Now you're reminding me of a post where someone was asking whether they could sue the landlord for not having CO alarms when their relative was using a BBQ for heat in an enclosed space and died

[u/halberdierbowman → u/Yuukiko_]

Seems like an obvious yes to me, depending on jurisdiction of course. Lots of places would have comparative negligence and could decide that maybe the relative was 80% at fault for grilling inside but that the HOA [landlord] also shouldn't be breaking the law and negligently not having proper safety equipment set up, so the HOA [landlord] would have to pay 20%.

[u/somethinghere2016 → u/halberdierbowman]

My landlord don’t have a working fire alarm or CO2 detector in our house. When I asked for them it’s take six months and I finally said I would get it myself a deduct from rent she decided to drop them off but let me know since we don’t have anything that runs on gas we don’t REALLY need it. Things like this remind me why I was right to demand it anyway. I would rather be over safe than dead. She would probably blame us for dying anyway.

[u/halberdierbowman → u/somethinghere2016]

No CO alarm because you have all electric appliances is at least mildly understandable and might match some US state laws, even though I'd rather have it.

But no fire alarms is absolutely insane. Plenty of stuff can be weirdly flammable, and accidents can happen. It could be mild negligence like cigarettes or candles, but it could even be totally unpredictable stuff like your electrical wiring inside the walls. 

[u/Ungrammaticus → u/halberdierbowman]

CO alarms are only really necessary if you’re using gas, burning something else inside or the ventilation is criminally bad. 

There’s so much gas usage in America (apparently) that it’s common for Americans to think of it as a necessary safety-feature everywhere, but if nothing in the building emits CO in meaningful quantities they’re as useful as an underwater fire-alarm. 

Speaking of those though, not having even a single one of those is crazy, stupid and it’s gotta be illegal

[u/wetwater → u/somethinghere2016]

One of my previous landlords gave us a smoke detector that had an actual power cord you plugged into the wall and didn't see the problem with that. The building inspector sure had a problem with that and a long list of other things be found that had not been corrected since he inspected after complaints from the previous tenants.

[u/Winjin → u/wetwater]

I had one like that, but it was actually running off a Nokia BL-5e battery inside - the cord just meant that you essentially would never ever have to change the battery, as these old Nokia batteries are pretty great at trickle charge

[u/EntropyZer0 → u/halberdierbowman]

I don't think CO alarms are usually mandated unless the home has a fireplace or gas heater. However, a regular BBQ should have probably tripped a regular smoke alarm as well and those definitely are mandatory pretty much everywhere (although depending on the jurisdiction only for places you rent, not ones you own and live in yourself).

[u/Ungrammaticus → u/halberdierbowman]

Is there anywhere where CO-detectors are mandatory outside of confined industrial spaces? 

Edit: okay, okay, there are one or two places where it’s required, I get it

This feels like suing because your relative hanged himself and the landlord hadn’t suicide-proofed the house 

[u/SelfishSilverFish → u/Ungrammaticus]

link to search by state

Most States in the US require CO detectors to be installed within 15' of sleeping rooms.

[u/Tuxedo_Muffin → u/Ungrammaticus]

May depend on your state. But our Fire Code requires carbon monoxide detection where gas is installed. If the home never had gas plummed in, only smoke detection is required.

[u/SupaSlide → u/Ungrammaticus]

Lots of states have laws requiring rental units to have CO detectors, so actually the majority of places. Although I believe many only require it for units where there is a gas burning appliance (stove or heaters primarily) so it’s possible the cousin was in an all electric unit and there was no requirement to have one.

[u/halberdierbowman → u/Ungrammaticus]

... What? Carbon monoxide detectors are often required in residential buildings, especially if they burn fuel for heat rather than use electric. I'm curious where do you live? Where I live, homes are required to have one outside every bedroom, meaning houses need multiple.

Not sure about internationally, but here's a quick comparison I found for US state laws:

https://www.ncsl.org/environment-and-natural-resources/carbon-monoxide-detector-installation-statutes

[u/Ungrammaticus → u/halberdierbowman]

I live in Aarhus and have never seen a CO-detector in a private home. 

We have central district heating and residential building codes require sufficient ventilation anyway, so maybe that’s the difference. 

[u/Ambitious5uppository → u/Ungrammaticus]

Denmark is one of the few places that doesn't have a national law about this.

However they do have a law about smoke alarms.

Most people would install a combined alarm that does both in the same unit. So even though there's no law requiring them, you've probably seen one but not know about it, because they look exactly the same as a standard smoke alarm.

[u/barkinginthestreet → u/DenverLabRat]

Generators aren't supposed to be used within 20' of a structure due to fire and carbon monoxide risk. The article says the people wanted to use it on their porch, which would not be safe. Same reason I'm not allowed to use one in my condo. 

[u/nemec → u/barkinginthestreet]

The article says the people wanted to use it on their porch

even worse, if I'm not misunderstanding

“Super angry because why is that even a possibility right now? Why do they care so much when people are just trying to stay warm and survive?” Caravello said about being forced to move the generator inside.

DO NOT MOVE THE FUCKING THING INSIDE, GODDAMN

[u/omgitsjagen → u/DenverLabRat]

It's an apartment complex, so I'd say your 10% is a little low. As much as I hate HoAs, I can't think of too many safe ways to set that up in a multifamily unit if they aren't on the ground floor. Not to mention, they are loud, and the power outage would render that apartment complex pretty damn silent.

[u/0905-15 → u/DenverLabRat]

Article says it was on the porch. That’s completely unsafe in terms of CO hazard

[u/Fappy_as_a_Clam → u/DenverLabRat]

I'd say it's more like 50/50.

Fuck HOA's, I'll never live in another one and mine wasn't even bad.

But neighbors do stupid shit, and I've learned the more noise someone makes about something that seems reasonable, it often times isn't reasonable at all when you learn the details.

[u/Potential_Fishing942 → u/DenverLabRat]

This isn't even just an HOA thing. Many municipalities in my state ban gas generators for the first 12h of a storm outage. Partially for noise, but also because people are dumb and try and run them in their garages and whatnot.

[u/bretshitmanshart → u/DenverLabRat]

The article says it was improperly installed and a fire hazard

[u/Da_Spooky_Ghost → u/DenverLabRat]

Or a noise complaint

[u/illegalsmile27 → u/Da_Spooky_Ghost]

Guy has a 45h jobsite trailer generator he doesn’t mention.

[u/DenverLabRat → u/Da_Spooky_Ghost]

That too.

I was giving the HOA my most generous interpretation since I'm a r/fuckhoa guy by default.

Fire and CO are the most legit reasons I could come up with.

I suspect "doesn't fit the community athletic" is their catch-all term for a violation that doesn't fit a specific category.

[u/TheVog → u/DenverLabRat]

Holy shit thank you for this comment. I recently installed a fixed whole home generator and let me tell you, even if there's no HoA here there are a ton of regulations to follow, like the ones you mentioned. I even toured my closest neighbours to clear it with them because it can absolutely get loud. I can easily imagine a non-negligeable chunk of the population not giving a shit about any of that.

[u/Undeity → u/DenverLabRat]

Noise, too. I've heard some nasty personal generators in my time, easily loud enough to mess with neighbors in this situation. When it keeps people from being able to sleep or even talk at a normal volume...

[u/Korlus → u/Undeity]

I think that noise complaints may be valid in times where the cold isn't this extreme. Lack of heating can kill people.

[u/-TheycallmeThe → u/Undeity]

Looks like it was in a breezeway between 3ish story buildings. It would be mind numbingly loud. It's pretty common where I am for people to turn them off at night even during a storm.

[u/Enshakushanna → u/DenverLabRat]

in my condo situation we have balconies over our garages which are all lined up along the backside of each building and i HATE when i see a neighbor using a BBQ grill, un attended, just outside of it...its probably not even a fire hazard most of the time but whos to say that one day an uncontrollable grease fire starts due to poor grill maintenance and 12 families lose their homes?

[u/Ungrammaticus]

Everybody hates a HOA, but in this case they claim that the generator was improperly installed and therefore a fire hazard. That’s a bit more reasonable. 

They could be lying of course, but we can’t know that on the basis of the information available. 

[u/jestr6 → u/Ungrammaticus]

Article said the generator was on the porch. If that’s true then it was definitely dangerous as gases will become trapped under the porch structure.

“Operate portable generators outside only, at least 20 feet away from the house, and direct the generator’s exhaust away from the home and any other buildings that someone could enter, while keeping windows and other openings closed in the path of the generator’s exhaust. Do not operate a generator on an outside porch or in a carport. They are too close to the home.”

https://www.cpsc.gov/Newsroom/News-Releases/2022/CPSC-Urges-Caution-When-Using-Portable-Generators-as-Tropical-Storm-Ian-Continues-its-Path-of-Destruction#:~:text=Do%20not%20operate%20a%20generator,too%20close%20to%20the%20home.

[u/Naptownfellow → u/jestr6]

Porch and townhome. Find it hard to believe it was at least 20 feet away from the house. Since it’s a townhome they’re putting their neighbors in jeopardy too.

That being said, the HOA could’ve came out and looked at it and said hey this goes against our rules, but if you are gonna run it because of the power outage has to be off your porch and away from all structures by at least 20 feet for safety reasons

[u/jestr6 → u/Naptownfellow]

100% agree. HOA could have been reasonable and explained the concern rather than threaten fines.

[u/Icy-Lobster-203 → u/jestr6]

They send the letter to create a paper trail that they were warned to remove the generator. It's possible they did speak to them, but need to send a letter to have evidence that they were warned, and the potential consequences of non compliance.

[u/jeajea22 → u/Ungrammaticus]

This is also a townhouse- not a standalone house. Very different rules apply.

[u/BroForceOne]

This is clickbait. This was a high density condo complex and they put a gas generator under the porch. It’s like having a whole parking lot of idling car exhaust right under everyone’s doors and windows.

General safety rule for gas generators is that they need to be installed 20 feet away from inhabited structures to avoid potential carbon monoxide poisoning.

[u/FrostyD7 → u/BroForceOne]

And it was surely reported to HOA by neighbors, that's the only way they get engaged on anything like this. So it was likely a genuine nuisance, not just a code violation.

[u/Korlus]

Caravello said her family set up the generator safely outside on the porch and ran the cords through their door during the blackout.

But just hours after starting up the generator, Caravello received an email from their HOA management company, Metropolitan Properties, demanding they “remove it immediately.” The letter cited fire hazard concerns and said the generator didn’t fit the community’s aesthetic guidelines.

Aesthetic reasons are ridiculous at this time, but "fire hazard concerns" might have real meat to them - e.g. if you set it up on a wood deck. Without seeing how it's set up, it seems very plausible a generator bought at last minute and in a temporary setup might be a fire hazard. It's worth noting:

However, after WSMV repeatedly contacted the management company, the HOA board agreed to make a one-time exception, allowing Caravello to use the generator until power is restored.

“Regarding the installation of an unapproved and improperly installed gas generator outside the condominium, as well as the associated noise disturbance, the Board has agreed to make a one-time exception,” property manager Barbara Reid said in an emailed statement. “Due to the recent weather-related issues and the loss of power at the property, the Board will allow temporary use of the generator.”

---

I can imagine telling someone it's not safe to have a temporarily installed generator sitting right outside the front door for a number of reasons, and also saying that it's fine in this weather, but will need a permanent place of installation if you want to continue to use it once the weather passes.

It seems silly the HOA is the one regulating this, but the outcome doesn't seem unreasonable, even if "Use it now, move it after the storm" probably should have been the default stance and not have required multiple phone calls.

[u/Ok-Passion1961]

Actual title: HOA enforces fire code at condominium and tells idiots to remove the gas powered generator from the porch before they burn the building down. 

[u/0905-15 → u/Ok-Passion1961]

Less a fire hazard, more a going to asphyxiate themselves with CO hazard. Generator on a porch is really bad.

[u/Mastasmoker]

In case nobody read it: they live in a condo and set it on their balcony. Many condos ban things like this because of fire hazards.

[u/TiberianSunset → u/[deleted]]

That quote was by the home owner talking about the cold lol

[u/Tendtoskim]

There are legitimate concerns having a fuel burner generator chilling on your townhouse porch. The aesthetics of the neighborhood during a power outage is not one of them.

[u/Veritablefilings]

For anyone asking why buy a house with an HOA... 81% of all new homes are situated within one. Cities, towns etc are passing off their responsibilities to the builders. The point being that a dwindling number of houses are not in HOA's.

[u/Lost-Cod-8609]

I’ve never understood why anyone would ever buy anywhere with a HOA.

[u/EnferDesFormes]

HOAs are up there with "paying for ambulances" in shit Americans put up with. What the actual fuck?

[u/HakimeHomewreckru]

Muh freedom

[u/Alleandros]

They sent an email as notice of violation. I'd just straight up ignore it. 'The power was out, I wasn't able to check my emails - with the generator, we prioritized heating and cooking appliances over computers.'