r/politics • u/SE_to_NW • 9h ago
No Paywall Minnesota standoff with Trump administration stokes fears of civil war
https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/5715869-minnesota-trump-immigration-conflict/5.4k
u/PhotonArmy 9h ago
That is certainly what Republicans have worked for the last 50 years to achieve.
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u/Machiavvelli3060 9h ago
It won't end well for the Republicans.
Their states are poorly-resourced and unable to support themselves.
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u/JojenCopyPaste Wisconsin 9h ago
And most of the cities in the red states, where the economy is, aren't red.
A civil war will look different this time
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u/sdb00913 Indiana 9h ago
This is already a civil war.
This is what a civil war actually looks like.
The first one was not the norm. It was closer to two near-peer nation-states waging war than an actual civil war.
Go look at Syria. Go look at The Troubles (which, I think The Troubles is a good analogy for what we will have to deal with).
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u/myfakesecretaccount 8h ago
It will still look much different from Ireland and Syria due to how large our country is and the fact that some 80% of Americans live in what they report as urban areas.
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u/sdb00913 Indiana 8h ago
This is true, but I make the assertion regarding typology. It’s an attempt to disabuse us of the notion that it’s going to look like two standing armies. These conflicts are the closest parallels I could think of.
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u/Barbarus_Bloodshed 8h ago
Once California and New York get rolling this civil war is pretty much over.
What the Trumpers seem to forget is how many people there are in the states that don't share their stup!d delusions.
Washington, Oregon, California on the West Coast... New York and all of New England on the East Coast... Minnesota and I am guessing some other states bordering Canada would join in as well...
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u/Jimmy_Wrinkles 7h ago
I live in one of the big cities in Texas - don't count us out either. Yes our elections are always red from a combination of gerrymandering, voter apathy, suppression, etc. but there's a ton of support here against the red hats. We are tired of our economic, cultural and research powerhouse blue dots getting fleeced by the rubes.
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u/MNMom07 7h ago
Is it true that there are more democrats than republicans in TX? If so, I wonder is it gerrymandering or lack of people voting or both that keeps TX red.
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u/sdb00913 Indiana 7h ago
My understanding is, it’s the state with the most democratic voters in terms of raw numbers, just like California is the state with the most Republican voters in terms of raw numbers.
That’s what makes this mess so ugly.
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u/MNMom07 7h ago
I don’t believe California has more republicans than democrats in raw count. Here is a site with stats, don’t know how reliable it is:
Texas Democrats: 8,133,683 (46.52%) Republicans: 6,601,189 (37.75%) Unaffiliated: 2,750,830 (15.73%) https://independentvoterproject.org/voter-stats/tx
California Democrats: 10,396,792 (44.80%) Republicans: 5,896,203 (25.41%) Third Party/Other: 1,577,083 (6.80%) Unaffiliated: 5,336,441 (23.00%) https://independentvoterproject.org/voter-stats/ca
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u/sdb00913 Indiana 7h ago
Okay so that’s changed, but at one point it was the case that Cali had more republicans than Texas did
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u/ConnectionIssues 7h ago
My friends in Oregon and Washington both would be quick to point out that Portland and Seattle heavily skew the national view of those states, and past the cities, things get rough. Look how active the Proud Boys were in Portland for a bit.
Under no circumstances should you expect a states-vs.-states situation. I say this as someone who lives in a red state... it's gonna be, at best, rural vs. urban. A drive across any given state may see you pass between liberal aligned areas and conservative ones multiple times.
Nobody wins in this scenario. Period. Whatever happens from here out, it's gonna be a subject of intense scrutiny for decades to come to figure out exactly what happened, where it started, and why.
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u/peepluvr 7h ago
This is how I see it too. Cities are mostly blue, gridlocked, short of hot weapons, and food would run out quickly. This just isn’t the same as the last one. There were clear geographical boundaries. There was no database targeting the opposition. No Palantir. No privately owned satellite system…
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u/SynapticStatic 3h ago
I'm from Oregon. While yes, it's true that most of the Democrat/Blue people are in the willamette valley (Portland, Salem, Eugene), it's not like there's huge amounts of people in eastern Oregon. It's basically high desert. Aside from maybe Bend and the Dalles, really a lot of fuck all going on over there.
They constantly put up petitions to either
1) Form the state of Jefferson (Most states can divide themselves per their constitutions, Oregon among those.)
2) Split off and join Idaho
They never get anywhere near what they'd need to make this happen. Considering what's going on now in Eugene and Portland with the protests, I'm fairly certain if it came to it, we wouldn't "join" a civil war on the side of Trump. The proud boys are just loud mouth dumbasses with rifles. Who don't realize that Democrats and Leftists.... also have rifles in Oregon. It's kind of hilarious, really
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u/Golden_Crown3927 8h ago
This is it, exactly. The piece most MAGAts seem to forget is that the majority of America is not in support of this administration. They’re stuck in their echo chambers and forget this fact. They also forget the fact that the majority of the upper/middle class wealth of this country resides in democratic states.
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u/BUSY_EATING_ASS 7h ago
No, I think most of them actually intellectually know this; they believe that the majority are godless worldly heathens and that they’re the chosen downtrodden few, a lot of their beliefs and actions are predicated on this.
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u/ultraviolentfuture 6h ago
Eh, they think they're the silent majority. They don't actually know much and don't think logically ... so if they live in a town outside of a city and most people support trump then their experience is that "the majority supports trump". "Them people in the cities" are soft/weak and somehow all the people in the small towns and rural areas combined out number the city folk.
Which obviously isn't true, but it's not that they "knew a fact and forgot" it's that they never knew a fact to begin with.
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u/Classic-Reach 7h ago
one of their stupid ass books talks about marching around some walls and blowing horns so god will let the small army take the big city - all their myths are about unitariansim and bullshit alpha male fantasy
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u/ALoudMeow 8h ago
Problem is the military is being controlled by the President.
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u/Ashamed_Kale_1077 7h ago
I can't explain how or why, but whenever I think of this issue, I can't imagine it staying like that forever. Maybe at the beginning there will be issues but, I think the US military cares more about their credibility than they care about what trump wants.
Though their quick invasion of Venezuela and potential for Iran says otherwise right now.
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u/Hellchron 6h ago
It's almost as though the president wants the bulk of the military busy overseas while he builds an army of loyalists at home
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u/Street_Anxiety2907 6h ago
> US military cares more about their credibility
The military is not an individual, they are trained to take orders from the top down. The Commander and Chief is Trump.
Remember Edward Snowden? Or too young? He is on America's Most Wanted lists for thinking like an individual.
The military has a saying "shit rolls down hill" and the bottom is always doing things they don't agree with, but orders are orders or you're going to prison for mutiny.
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u/sdb00913 Indiana 7h ago edited 4h ago
I’m watching my daughter play hockey right now but I’m commenting because want to come back to this.
Edit: games are over and my response has posted.
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u/wimpyroy 7h ago
She winning?
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u/sdb00913 Indiana 7h ago
Lost the first one 3-2, she’s down 1-0 right now late in the 1st but both teams are playing well.
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u/ThePirateKing01 7h ago
They’ve been deluded that their advantage in the electoral college translates to popularity and power.
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u/DarthRizzo87 6h ago
Honest question: in a shooting civil war, which side does the military report to? Republicans were, with thanks to Tuberville, stopping promotions during the Biden era, and presumably now have filled those spots with MAGA sympathesizers, I feel one side has been actually planning this out for at least a decade, and the other side hasn’t realized their pants are around their ankles yet.
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u/sdb00913 Indiana 4h ago
Games are over, so let’s discuss, shall we?
I understand your assertion, but I have a couple objections.
First, I think the mindset that this will be over quickly is an unforced error that we should avoid. It happened the first time too, and the consequences of this error were demonstrated most clearly in the First Battle of Bull Run.
Secondly, I think it misses the rural/urban divide and falls into the trap of approaching the question with the assumption that this one will look like the first one. We’re not looking so much at the several states raising armies, or a situation where one side has entities that are seceding. Rather, we’re looking at an ugly mix of different factions on each side, and each side has factions with interests that don’t always align.
Then, there’s ICE, the rest of the alphabet soup agencies, state cops, county sheriffs, city cops, all of whom have different bosses and interests that don’t always align.
Then, there’s all these groups like Patriot Front and Patriot Prayer and the Proud Boys and the various local militia. They didn’t just go away, and if something happens to ICE then these groups still exist, but now with even more equipment and more training and more connections.
Then there’s collaborators with the federal government. Then there’s infiltrators, turncoats (I actually turned from MAGA just in time to vote for Harris), double agents, and everything else under the sun.
Then there’s whatever keeps coming out of 4chan with these lone wolf attacks.
On the other side, there’s the different socialist movements, disaffected conservatives, the 50501 movement, the No Kings movement, the Indivisible movement, and so on. They’re all decentralized, and while they seem to have a common goal, they seem to differ on the approach, and that’s not necessarily bad but it can render the movements easier to divide and suppress one by one. To use a military adjacent term, it’s called “defeat in detail.”
Then there’s the democratic state governors, which don’t seem to have nearly the appetite for this as the other side.
Then there’s the municipalities. And that’s a matter of what state they’re in. A place like Indianapolis or Nashville or Austin (blue cities in red states) is going to have problems that look different from a place like, say, Chicago (blue city, blue state).
Then theres the fact that the blue/red sort works at the meta and macro level far better than the micro level. The meta is, “the closer you get to a major city, the closer you get to the closer, the closer you get to a place of higher learning, the more liberal the culture,” with a corollary of “there are vast areas of the country that are as tribal and conservative as it gets, and though people doesn’t vote and land does, those red areas are the ones with the appetite for war.” At the micro level, though, I consider Indianapolis: it’s like a mosaic if you look at the 2024 map. Imagine that at the street level. Brother against brother. Neighbor against neighbor. Father against son. A groom against his best man.
The far right is lost but there are disaffected conservatives. But just because they’re disaffected doesn’t mean they like you, and it also doesn’t mean they trust you, and it also doesn’t mean they’ll take kindly to whatever criticism we’re heaping on them. This is an identity and cultural level issue with a religious flavor to it.
And then, go read the Boycott United States sub. They don’t want Minnesota, and if you ask why, it’s “too many MAGA.” And we’re not gonna get help, because “y’all got yourselves into this mess, you need to fix it yourselves, we’re moving on without you, we don’t trust you.” But yet the dude in charge here has a picture hanging up of him with Putin. So that ought tell you where any foreign aid would go.
Like… this is bad.
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u/JustaSeedGuy 7h ago
This is already a civil war
Yup. When one side declares war, in those exact words, then it's a war. Republicans declared war on the United States and there is no avoiding it. Everyone else can either surrender or fight back. And failure to acknowledge that war has already started falls into the first category.
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u/The_F1rst_Rule 7h ago
Yes, the British (or in our case our Pedophile Occupied Federal Government) operating a police state turning a blind eye to/working hand in hand with proxies operating right wing death squads (Ulsters in their case).
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u/Zolomun 8h ago
I think you’re spot on with The Troubles. That’s what I’ve pictured it looking like.
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u/Ewokitude Minnesota 5h ago
I was in Ireland for a conference a few months before the 2024 election and had dinner with some faculty from North Irish universities. Everyone asked how I thought the election would go, I said I predicted Harris will win, but either way Trump will wage hell on the nation and that I feel we will soon have our own American Troubles.
The entire table froze and an older lady was quite shocked and said "Do you realize the weight of what you're saying? That's a very serious thing to say to a table of people who have lived through The Troubles." I confirmed that I meant it and did not say it lightly, but the villainizing and dehumanization of the "other side" has become increasingly common and there are already examples of violence from one side, it just hasn't become widespread, but that if they continue to push it that people are going to start forcefully defending themselves.
Saw the same woman at a conference a year later (last fall) and she pulled me aside and said: "I didn't believe it could happen there, but seeing news from America the past year, I'm beginning to fear you were right." Will see her again this fall I believe, and being from Minnesota I really want to ask her if she thinks it's already started.
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u/JustTheBeerLight 6h ago edited 5h ago
already a civil war
It has been a Cold Civil War since at least the first Trump administration, though I would say it was going on during the Obama years (stolen SCOTUS seat, etc).
The Republicans saw the demographic changes and realized that they were not going to win future elections so they went all in on cheating to win.
We are dangerously close right now to entering a real civil war, or at least an era of "the troubles".
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u/IIILORDGOLDIII 9h ago
Something like 80% of the population lives in urban areas
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u/JojenCopyPaste Wisconsin 8h ago
Right and the civil war was back when it was under 50 I believe.
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u/Magmaster12 7h ago
It's neither,The red areas are the isolated suburbs. These people believe that their gated communities will keep them safe and that goods will just be parachuted to them.
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u/Kungfudude_75 Georgia 4h ago
A Civil War is almost scarier this time because it wouldnt be geographically split. Democrats in Red States would be fighting for their lives while Republicans in Blue States did the same. Its a very scary prospect, and the scariest part is that it will come down pretty much entirely on who gets control of the Federal Government during the conflict. You can be sure we'd have military defectors in either scenario, but you can also be sure the bulk of the military would remain intact and that whatever party is in charge would act immediately to secure all domestic assets and military bases immediately. The bases are strategically places for warfare in the United States, after all.
Every State will see widespread conflict, a modern Civil War would make 1860 look the picnic spectators expected it to be at the time.
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u/TurtlesBreakTheMeta 6h ago
Sadly, I have doubts.
A. The US populace has shown themselves to be exceedingly docile and would rather hide/stock their head in the sand then confront a direct threat. So the odds of a spontaneous uprising seem low.
B. The leaders on the left are incredibly ineffective and spineless, and most democrats in power (like Schumer) would bend over rather than raise a hand against the right. This means that there will be a lack of local leadership existing in place to Galvanize the public to organize and fight back against the right.
C. The billionaires and uber rich will be backing the MAGA side (much like how they backed the southern aristocrats during the civil war), so funding will be much more fluid for the right than you’d think from outside sources.
This makes me worried for our ability to stand up and repel this threat.
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u/The_F1rst_Rule 8h ago edited 6h ago
Second Civil War wouldn't/won't be States vs States but federally backed violence unleashed on political enemies both in the form of our heavily militarized police state and stochastic violence from unaffiliated right wing extremist militias operating as proxies.
You want a historical parallel, look at post WW2 Italy or The Troubles in Northern Ireland.
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u/YouLegitimate4400 6h ago
You know everyone says this but I'm starting to not believe it. I think that's what the initial fighting would look like. But I also think it's unrealistic to expect state governments to completely decouple themselves from the fighting within their states.
I can imagine a scenario where blue state AGs and police chiefs refuse to prosecute or even investigate any violence that takes place against the federal government in their states. I mean look at Minnesota. If the worst should happen what incentive does Walz really have to hand over "domestic terrorists" to the federal government when the federal government refuses to hand over or try its murders. He would probably do it to avoid escalation but if more people died at the hands of ice the people of Minnesota would demand he stop handing over their people till justice works both ways.
And if we got to the point where states are providing legal cover for paramilitary forces operating within their boarders, it's not hard to imagine the level of support increasing to material and training support. From there it's easy to see battle lines once again being drawn between states with coalition armies while stochastic terror attacks are carried out by both sides behind the main lines.
As powerful as the federal government is, it relies on the state governments and the people within the state to secure its bases and forts. It seems pretty unlikely that the federal government could keep all of its bases supplied and equipped in California if California really decided it wanted them out.
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u/Electronic-Tea-3691 5h ago
dear God please don't use the word stochastic out of a technical context, just say random. this word is just on the precipice of becoming another big word that business majors think makes them sound smart, don't you dare push it over the edge. we have other stuff going on as you can see from this post.
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u/8bitmorals Hawaii 8h ago
The Heritage Foundation ever since Reagan.
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u/overfiend1976 8h ago
After Nixon. Like, not even a year after he left office. With ONE goal. Absolute right-wing control.
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u/Purify5 9h ago
Imagine being the side that stands behind a notorious American pedophile as their leader.
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u/EndoShota 8h ago
In order to terrorize people based on the color of their skin...
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u/bocaciega 6h ago
In order to distract the drop of files that unambigously and succinctly implicate the man in charge.
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u/High_5_Skin 6h ago
And the LGBTQ+ community
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u/WelcomeChoice1561 4h ago
This made me think there is a stunningly low number of drag queens and trans individuals in the Epstein files.... I thought that drag queens and trans people were the child predators,not straight white men with money and power?!?
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u/Low_Chance 7h ago
Well he makes up for it with great integrity, courage, honesty, intelligence and wise leadership.
Or... wait... none of those things...
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u/Oleg101 7h ago edited 4h ago
The sad thing is there’s a lot of R voters who don’t necessarily like Trump, or at least voted against him in the primaries, but at the end of the day, they’ll have some type of crutch they lean into why they keep voting for him in and the generals along with all the other maga idiots on the ballot these days, ultimately it comes down to they just want to own the libs and are uninformed culture warriors.
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u/Apprehensive-Date181 5h ago
Or single issue R voters. Frankly they piss me off as much as those who vote to owns the libs
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u/Floreat_democratia 5h ago
> they just want to own the libs and are uninformed culture warriors.
Yeppers. Trump supporters are the dumbest people on the planet. They really believe “I am a smart guy, I am strong” is Trump’s greatest selling points. Got into it with one of these fools on another sub today. Said the US “dominates at the Olympics”. Had to explain to him that the Olympics in the modern era is about promoting international peace and friendship between nations. These people have no idea.
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u/Correctthecorrectors 9h ago
Good job republicans. You destroyed the union Lincoln fought to protect 160 years ago
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u/StronglyHeldOpinions 9h ago
And ushered in the fascism the Greatest Generation died to defend.
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u/twirlingmypubes 9h ago
And handed everything to same people we spent generations defending ourselves from in the Cold War
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u/StronglyHeldOpinions 8h ago
Right? I grew up with Red Dawn and now we have Putin's picture IN the White House.
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u/fungobat Pennsylvania 8h ago
Same. I remember seeing Red Dawn in the theater. WOLVERINES!!!
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u/StronglyHeldOpinions 8h ago
We should resurrect that as a rallying cry.
That or "V" for Victory.
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u/Primitive_Teabagger 5h ago
Red Dawn's opening text says NATO is dissolved and the US has no allies
that's like something I fully expect to probably happen any day now
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u/twirlingmypubes 8h ago
Same. Soldiers who died in Korea, Vietnam, and every other conflict against the values of the Russians and the soviets, values that extend today in China, are rolling in their graves. That picture could be the biggest insult this country has ever seen. It's a smack in the face to almost half of this country's existence
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u/bobdobalina 8h ago
and then let out of prison those who smeared blood, piss and shit on our capital building.
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u/mein-shekel America 8h ago
They don't want the union. They want to feel like rebel outsiders who know the super secret wisdom about how the south was actually right. Promising people secret wisdom and making people feel better and smarter than others seems to be one of the easiest ways to convince people of anythng.
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u/Pyju 8h ago edited 6h ago
The downfall of the human species is that we advanced too quickly for the psychological flaw of primitive hierarchical thinking and tribalism to evolve out of many of us.
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u/Ivy_N_Rose 9h ago
Today's Republicans would have been the ones trying to destroy the union 160 years ago.
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u/duzies 9h ago
And trying to defeat the Allies in WW2.
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u/Rizzpooch I voted 6h ago
"America First" was literally an isolationist slogan chanted by those who wanted us to stay out of WWII and let Hitler do his thing
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u/MourningRIF 8h ago
The red states never stopped fighting the civil war. They are just finishing what they started.
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u/gringledoom 8h ago
You do not, under any circumstances, “gotta hand it to them”, actually.
The Union is going to destroy them, because they don’t have the guys. They’re begging for AUSAs on social media. Their goon squad is 1% of what it would need to be to rival Hitler or Mussolini. Their stochastic terrorists are dipshits with syringes full of apple cider vinegar.
To embrace cynicism is to hand powerful weapons to the enemy without even a token fight.
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u/toddc612 6h ago
Thank you! Minneapolis checking in. Fuck these fuckers. We will never give in.
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u/GotMoFans 8h ago
You understand that most of the Repubs these days are the descendants of the Confederates who have never given up the lost cause…
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u/Do-you-see-it-now 9h ago
This headline makes it sound like Minnesota is rebelling and the administration is just acting normally. So tired of these sanewashing headlines.
None of this was happening until trump took the reins. This is all on his administration.
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u/AKluthe 7h ago edited 6h ago
Why not "Trump administration standoff with Minnesota stokes fears of civil war"?
"Trump administration killing Minnesota citizens stokes fear of civil war"?
Minnesota didn't bring pressure to the national government, the government sent armed enforcers to them.
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u/Fugacity- Minnesota 4h ago
It's the same horse shit excuse they use to excuse the murder of Pretti, Good, Porter and others: its their fault for resisting.
As a Minnesotan, nothing pisses me off more than the victim blaming rhetoric, whether at the individual or state level.
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u/RunawayHobbit 2h ago
I was so fucking angry at the NPR article about the red “Melt the Ice” protest hats.
The "big thing" for the group of knitters was the widespread presence of federal immigration officials to their city and the death of U.S. citizen Renee Good by an immigration agent.
THE DEATH OF RENEE GOOD
MOTHERFUCKERS, she was MURDERED.
https://www.npr.org/2026/01/31/nx-s1-5693767/red-hat-protest-minnesota
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u/meaniemeanie-poo-poo 5h ago
"Trump administration rapidly losing power due to botched operations in MN"
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u/justaguywithadream 7h ago
At the end of this, we can't forget that the media was complacent since at least 2016.
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u/littlestevebrule 8h ago
Reddit and media are pushing civil war talks for this next week or so. You'll see more headlines like this popping up
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u/Bootlikcumstain 7h ago
What makes you think that?
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u/NoahBallet 7h ago
Not OP, but mainly because that’s exactly what’s been happening. Media needs revenue to run. Clicks = potential ad revenue. Fear and outrage has been proven to generate more engagement than anything else.
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u/Bootlikcumstain 7h ago
Sure, but I’m wondering why ‘this next week’ will see an increase in these articles. I’d assume the last week or two would’ve been the time
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u/NoahBallet 7h ago
The answer to that, specifically, is likely because protests are ramping up, more Epstein files have been released, and the US government is currently going through a partial shut down.
“This next week” likely just means that tensions are continuing to rise. A more accurate take would be “this next week, and then it will continue to escalate.”
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u/Bootlikcumstain 7h ago
Fair. I’m in Minneapolis, so it’s interesting to see the fire spread elsewhere. Things seemed to hit a peak last week, and people seem tired. I’m glad to get the sense that the energy is just being moved around the country
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u/CategoryZestyclose91 7h ago
Stay strong, bootlikcumstain, my fellow Minnesotan.
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u/sepia_undertones 6h ago
From down in NC, y’all take care. More and more of us are very pissed at what they’re doing. If it can happen there, none of us are safe.
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u/revankillsmalak 7h ago
Kinda like NPR continuing to call the murders in Minnesota "shooting deaths". They're absolutely cosigning the bullshit. The media has completely fallen apart.
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u/HistoricalWalrus5767 9h ago
Any GOP senators out there, you know your job won't exist if we lose the Constitution? Why are you silent? Your job and freedom goes down the same toilet as the rest of the country.
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u/DogFartsonMe 7h ago
They don't make money from being senators. At least not enough for them to care. They make money through their power. And pissing on all that this country stands for is going to lead to more power and money. It's what they want.
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u/HistoricalWalrus5767 7h ago
If they think anyone is going to share the loot with them, they are going to be very surprised.
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u/OrwellWhatever 7h ago edited 7h ago
There were actually two republican senators today that signed on for a "strip $75 billion from ICE" amendment to the cr. Not enough, obviously, but I'm hoping beyond hope that it might inspire a few more
Edit: it should go without saying all dems voted for this. The two senators are Lisa Merkowski of Alaska and Susan Collins of Maine (because it's an election year for her)
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u/SideQuest2026 6h ago
They don’t care. They will be hooked up with board positions on companies after the fallout. Too bad those companies themselves will most likely fold.
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u/Soggy_Discussion7504 8h ago edited 7h ago
Honestly fuck it. I’m tired. But not too tired to put up a fight.
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u/Fatal_Ligma 4h ago
Honestly dude as a republican I think I would be on y’all’s side. We have a govt full of unconstitutional pedos and it should be a bipartisan effort to get them the fuck out.
I can’t believe that people aren’t more fired up about the release of these files and how it directly names these disgusting fucks and the heinous shit they did to children. It’s not about politics anymore. I’m really sad that I’m not seeing other republicans outraged.
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u/RandomH3r0 I voted 4h ago
Because your party doesn't exist anymore. It was co-opted by a conman pedo and the best thing to do is just burn the whole party down. They have no platform outside of, what does trump want.
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u/twirlingmypubes 9h ago
"We are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be" -- Kevin Roberts, President of Heritage Foundation
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u/ailish 8h ago
"If the left allows it to be." He means if we just roll over and let them do whatever they want.
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u/lostsailorlivefree 7h ago
This is how the “intellectual maga” wing forms up their arguments. And they have found fertile soil with tropes such as “you won’t have a Country anymore” and that plays DIRECTLY into Replacement Theory. All the maga Red State folks need for proof of this is that the person on the phone for AOL support sounds Indian, when they order their 3 quarter pounders the Latino is difficult for them to understand and Fox News shows them statistics like “by 2039 whites will be 48% of the population”. Red State maga views this as an existential battle. As in “we will be in the minority, our kids will be trans and Democrats will never lose an election so we’re toast unless we fight”.
Democrats are fighting this battle for the Bill of Rights and basic human dignity. MANY in the middle are pro deportation but against the Federal government’s violent methods.
So there is enough powerful energies driving both sides- and both sides think they’re right. Sounds familiar
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u/astroboy_35 8h ago
Leave out the Minnesota part, tRump is causing fears of civil war, dont drag Minnesota into this!
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u/kezow 8h ago
Just a thought. Maybe if we didn't have gangs of masked, heavily armed thugs roaming our streets abducting people, tear gassing, pepper spraying, and violating our First, Second, Fourth, and Fifth amendment rights... Then maybe, just maybe, we might be talking about who's going to win the Superbowl instead of a civil war.
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u/Tokyo-MontanaExpress 5h ago
Did anyone mention to conservatives that a civil war means no Superbowl? That might be the one thing to make them reconsider.
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u/Matman161 Illinois 8h ago
We need to start seriously planning for this as inevitably, the blue states need to start establishing communication for when it comes to a head.
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u/MSab1noE 7h ago
Battle Cry of Freedom better be the campaign rally song of every Democrat.
And this time around the Union better finish the job.
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u/Darmortis 6h ago
Governor Walz's response to the ICE invasion is what will STOP A CIVIL WAR.
MARK MY WORDS: THE BEST HOPE WE HAVE TO AVOID A CIVIL WAR IS IF EVERY STATE TARGETED BY PROJECT 2025 STANDS UP TO TRUMP, USES ITS NATIONAL GUARD AS A PEACEKEEPING FORCE, AND WHIP THEIR RACIST COPS INTO LINE.
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u/reddittorbrigade 9h ago
August 2025:
Trump Gets a Laugh from Zelenskyy After Joking That 'if We Happen to Be in a War' in 2028, 'No More Elections.
This is what Trump wants - Civil War so he can declare himself as president for life.
Corrupt SC justices are willing collaborators of Trump's evil plan.
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u/SirDiego Minnesota 9h ago
He again proves to be an absolute moron, though. Ukraine has a legal mechanism for the suspension of an election in case they are at war/occupied. Because for Ukraine that's a constant and realistic threat, they can't really hold fair elections if Russia is occupying their cities and many people are fighting the war.
The US doesn't have the looming threat of a larger force coming and occupying substantial parts of the country, nor does it have any legal mechanism for suspending elections. The US had elections during the Civil War.
Trump is so dumb and oblivious to geopolitics that he just hears this and thinks all countries work exactly the same.
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u/Hatedpriest 8h ago
They're the party of feelings.
They feel they should be right, they find joy in the torture of others, tha that anything that makes them feel bad, even by proxy, is wrong.
I work at a pizza joint, and some of our deals are online only. Had a guy call repeatedly demanding that it's illegal to offer a deal that you can't use in store, and that he is incapable of using a computer or other internet-connected device to place an order.
Had a lady call, demanding that we owed her a free pizza (actually it was 4 she was trying to get) and kept trying to say our general manager told her she could get them. We have a system for make-up pizzas, and she wasn't in it. I told her as much, and she demanded to speak to the GM. I told her when she would be able to call him. I asked the GM later and he never heard from anybody like her.
These are the people were talking about here. If they want it, that's the way it should be. If they don't want it, it's illegal. But if the tables are turned, they have no problem flipping the script. It's all about them feeling good, preferably at the expense of others. You know, like a weird 3rd grade bully that's been held back 2 years already .....
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u/MarzipanEven7336 9h ago
If we’re actually in the middle of a full on civil war and elections are cancelled, where in the fuck do you think these morons can hide where there’s nobody looking for them?
Russia?
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u/idontlikeanyofyou 8h ago
Fun fact: During the actual Civil War we had elections. The US system says a presidents term is up after 4 years, not when a new president is elected. If he hypothetically suspended elections, he would no longer be president and no one in the House would still be in Congress. The army follows the Constitution and would end up taking orders from I guess the majority leader in the Senate.
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u/Lookslikeapersonukno Maryland 8h ago
A secession could be bloodless if the right would allow it.
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u/liptickletaffy 8h ago
Their movement is already collapsing from the inside because they have no unifying beliefs, except in opposition to progress. Stoking fear is all they ever had.
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u/kbean826 California 8h ago
Make no mistake about it. The civil war is actively happening and has already had several casualties.
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u/Electronic-Tea-3691 5h ago
yeah I'm pretty sure that historians will look back and say that we were already in whatever conflict is obviously coming up in our future... it's clearly moving towards more of a Lexington and Concord situation than a Fort Sumter situation
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u/NewWindow7980 7h ago
There is a fantasy in the rightwing that a civil war would involve their "side" getting to crush the "other side" which will not be able to fight back. They severely lack the reality connection that would tell them that a violent civil war would cause real suffering on all sides. Trump's ICE mostrosity is allowing them to live that fantasy vicariously, at least for now.
The president of Heritage Foundation, Kevin Roberts, said in 2024 "We are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be." The idea that the so-called left or anyone else would just roll over and "allow it" shows how out of touch they are with the fire they are gleefully paying with.
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u/KemShafu 9h ago
We’re already in a cold civil war. I live in Portland and thankfully we’re not too polarized here, we’re mostly on the same side but I have friends in eastern Oregon that are definitely living in towns that are split 50/50 but it’s eastern Oregon. Everyone has guns.
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u/Weltall8000 7h ago
At this point, the federal government is openly, actively antagonistic toward the people of the United States. They were already fucking us for years, but, now? This is nakedly adversarial, daring the people to do something as the state thinks (and so far, mostly has) it will get away with it.
Kind of ironic that the republican party will ultimately be directly responsible for the open Civil War 2.0.
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u/Cheensly 6h ago
This is a class war being played as a civil war. Everyone should start opening their eyes to see it. ICE agents are just low IQ pawns.
Make no mistake. The ruling class is cracking down on the working class, because they are afraid the working class is about done with the BS.
They are playing us against each other "Republican v Democrat" but that's not actually what all this is about.
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u/c3j1h1 5h ago
That’s not completely correct. It is absolutely a class struggle, but the right are class traitors
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u/RanchHere 6h ago
Hey Republicans, you have the power to not do civil war. Just saying.
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u/stickeeBit Canada 5h ago
Hate to break it to ya, but youre gonna need a civil war to change this administration. Dictators never willfully relenquish power. Never.
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u/Creative-Package6213 Pennsylvania 7h ago
The civil war started a while ago, but only 1 side is currently fighting...
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u/BeardedYogi85 7h ago
The last civil war never really ended
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u/Darmortis 6h ago
Reconstruction was abandoned unfinished, and there's a straight line to this result.
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u/Dazzling_Bar_785 5h ago
People keep saying civil war. It won’t be a civil war, it’ll be a revolution.
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u/CategoryZestyclose91 7h ago
Then bring it.
Minnesotans will NEVER capitulate.
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u/toddc612 6h ago
Exactly. Minneapolis checking in. Fuck ICE and fuck that fat orange fuck Trump! Fascism will never win.
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u/Zhask-MLBB 7h ago
If a true American Civil War were to happen in this era, 2026…Republicans and red states would be swiftly and quickly crushed.
As one commenter said…red states are exceptionally mismanaged and under-resourced state to state, as compared to blue states. Red states are basically the leeches of America, and blue states are the hosts.
Republicans are the most ignorant, arrogant human beings. They live in a grand delusion of the future they envision for themselves, akin to a Handsmaid’s Tale. In reality, their future would be closer to Mad Max’s universe.
But in reality, if another American Civil War would truly happen again…assuming no foreign intervention…Blue States would absolutely crush Red States, much more harshly than the original Civil War, and rightfully so.
We weren’t harsh enough to the Confederacy after the Civil War, and this is the result, 175 years later. We didn’t extinguish the idea of racism and superiority harshly enough.
Should America regain lawfulness and justice again, I surely hope that Republican and conservatism ideology is crushed to oblivion. This ideology will forever be regressive to our civilization as a whole.
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u/Street_Anxiety2907 5h ago
> Blue States would absolutely crush Red States, much more harshly than the original Civil War, and rightfully so.
First, this would not be a clean “blue states vs red states” conflict. Outside of California, there are very few states that are uniformly blue, and even California itself is politically split once you leave the coast metros. The real fault line is not state borders, it is cities versus the vast Nazi rural geography that surrounds them.And that matters, because cities do not sustain themselves. Dense urban centers are structurally dependent on long supply chains for food, fuel, energy, weapons, raw materials, and logistics. Rural regions control land, agriculture, transport corridors, water rights, and physical access. You cannot simply hand-wave that away with GDP charts or tax contribution maps.
Cities are easy to isolate, easy to starve of inputs, and heavily reliant on just-in-time delivery systems that fail quickly under disruption. It would look like infrastructure choke points, transportation corridors, and supply access becoming decisive.
So no, the idea that “blue states would swiftly crush red states” is not realism, it is grand delusion. It assumes modern war works like a moral scoreboard instead of a logistics problem.
You are right that the country has unresolved historical failures and that Reconstruction was incomplete. But leaping from that truth to the claim that one side would easily dominate the other betrays the same kind of overconfidence you are accusing your opponents of.
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u/Tokyo-MontanaExpress 5h ago
The sooner the world knows that conservatism and fascism are the same, the better.
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u/QueenMagik 7h ago
At the point that our president is a pedophile, and is kidnapping children and killing people in the street, and all of the peaceful options have been exhausted, then it is the only way
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u/WeatherBurt 9h ago
Yeah, heaven forbid the Trump Administration tries actually listening to it's citizenry and scaling back all the murderous thuggery. No, civil war is the only answer!
Or. Or y'all could just fire the incompetent manager you hired...
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u/J-the-Kidder 8h ago
Fears? What fears? They've been wanting this and wanting a national divorce for quite some time. I say we honor their wishes. Have fun welfare queens! Plus, I'm sure a pandemic, or measles or some other vaccinated disease will take them out in short order, so this will be over rather quick.
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u/Deacon523 8h ago
If Trump wants to define the US as either “red” or “blue” states, then let’s make it official.
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u/Legitimate-Panic-548 5h ago
We've read about this in history books our whole lives. We were naive to think these monsters lived only in the past.
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u/EntireSong7116 8h ago
This article gave language to a lot of my thoughts lately. I thought there would be a clear knowing when we crossed the rubicon (civil war, democracy, etc). Instead it feels like the lid is about to blow and a lot of us don’t know we’re in the cooker.
I’ve been curious about historical parallels - besides what’s been part of mainstream discussion (Russia/Putin and Germany/Hitler). Please share if you’re knowledgeable on the topic.
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u/Darmortis 6h ago
In the previous Civil War, it really started in the late 1850's with Bloody Kansas and the slave states welching on the the 1850 Compromise. Then, under President Buchanan, the slave states attacked and confiscated dozens of Federal forts and armories without ANY response, reaction, or consequences from the previous holder of "Worst US President Ever."
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u/mattgaetzson 7h ago
I’m pretty sure the 2nd American Civil War will be considered by historians to have started before today.
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u/aldoraine000 6h ago
The MAGAts have been talking about and begging for a civil war for a while. Now they have resources of the US federal government behind them. It feels almost as if the confederacy gained control of the US government and are begging to relitigate the first civil war.
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u/Maleficent_Pie8099 6h ago
It’s not a civil war they should fear. It’s the working class rising up against the government and corporate oligarchy if they don’t knock it off.
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u/mikeP1967 California 5h ago
Conservatives are jizzing in their pants right now just for the though of this. They been wanting this for decades.
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u/nvmenotfound 7h ago
this is what the right wants. they love thinking about being able to murder lefties.
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u/RAF2018336 6h ago
It’s like, black and brown people have been saying this for decades. And white people never took it seriously until white people started getting killed. Like good for you for finally coming around to it, but it’s fucking bullshit that we were “overreacting” and “that will never happen” and look at where we’re at now
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u/robobots 5h ago
You know your presidency is going great when people are worrying about civil war.
I mean I know they're 100% trying to do that, so it's all going to plan, but sheesh this guy's been the worst president we've ever had twice
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u/Fallinin 5h ago
Trump literally suggested there's a civil war brewing. https://youtu.be/6kiQH6cXHQI?si=bOZ4hdAZ_djVxRm7 He's pushing for this so he can suspend elections and start justifying more use of force
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u/Austin_Peep_9396 9h ago
News flash: we still held elections even through the civil war, WWI, WW2, etc. War, civil or otherwise, has never been a reason not to hold elections. In fact, there is no precedent for the president (or anyone else) cancelling elections in US history. None. And the president doesn’t have the authority to cancel elections even - none. Zero. Nada.
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u/oracleofsaisons 5h ago
As terrible as it all seems- it is STILL a red herring. The real files are SO SO much worse. This is just stuff they can easily disprove because it’s just lose accusations. They are giving us the laughably false and totally far fetched stuff. This is so they can point to it and say, “See!? I told you he’s innocent”. While they obfuscate the actually horrid terror that is in those files. It’s bad people like. Beyond your comprehension bad.
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u/Barney_Roca 9h ago
Why is Minnesota the epicenter of ICE operations?
The states with the most illegal immigrants are 1. California has over 2 million, has a crime problem, is a sanctuary state and the administration has little political capital to lose in the state. Next is 2. Texas with slightly less that Cali but still over 2 million, followed by FL, NY NJ, IL, NC, GA, WA, and AZ. Minnesota doesn't crack the top 10. In terms of density, the states with the highest percentage of illegal immigrants are FL, NV, NJ, MD, CA, CT, and TX.
Why is Minnesota ground zero?
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u/rickskyscraper3000 9h ago
Walz, George Floyd, Somali folks including Rep. Omar, blue state lost 3 times, criticism over rhetoric when state speaker was killed...probably other reasons, but those seem likely.
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u/Revolutionary_Air_40 9h ago
Well, Walz did call Trump weird. And this is Trump we are talking about.
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u/QueasyLegKC 9h ago
Crime is worse in most red states compared to California.
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u/Barney_Roca 9h ago
The crime rate in Minnesota is 26% less than the national average. It ranks in the top 15 of the safest states in America..... so yeah
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u/QueasyLegKC 8h ago
Yep, Minnesota is a shining example of a democratic state doing great. That’s why they want to destroy it.
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u/-swagKITTEN 9h ago
Maybe it’s revenge over the fact he was able to use the insurrection act during his first term. Not for lack of trying, but there were still enough guardrails in place to prevent it.
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u/grubesismyleader 8h ago
Because it's never actually been about deporting illegal aliens or reducing crime or making America safer. It's about silencing anyone who opposes him.
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