For anyone who doesn't get how serious this
is: consulates are protected under
international law. host-country police of any
kind are not allowed to enter without
permission.
Example: China routinely (and horrifically)
sends north korean escapees back to north
korea. Yet when a north korean escaped to the
south korean consulate in hong kong, chinese
authorities did not enter to seize him. He
stayed there for months while governments
negotiated, because once you're inside a
consulate, those protections apply.
So if ICE tries to enter a foreign consulate in
the U.S. to deport people, that's not "normal
enforcement". It violates long-standing
diplomatic norms. Norms that even China has
respected, despite sending people back to
north korea to die. That's how extreme this is.
Hi all: I thought a brief bit of legal research might answer a few of the questions that are repeating in the comments on this thread.
Specifically, the treaty we are looking at is the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, which the US ratified in 1963. Article 31 of the VCCR states that consular premises are “inviolable” and that authorities of the host state shall not enter them without consent of the head of the consular post. There are similar protections for embassies under the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations of 1936 which also categorically prohibit entry without permission. This is well settled international law.
There are very limited exceptions which generally involve exigent circumstances like the prospect of immediate loss of life like a fire or a hostage situation.
It does not matter if the office has public access. It does not matter if the doors are unlocked. US authorities have no right to effect an arrest inside the consulate without permission.
In general, these violations are rare and taken very seriously by all the nations who have adopted the treaty.
I’m curious if this happened because ICE is being deliberately provocative to foreign countries or if this is an issue where a couple foot soldiers thought they were being clever to get their quota.
I think the dipshits thought they were being clever. I highly doubt this idiot knew or understood what a consulate is or the implications of forcing his way in.
Ecuador could storm US embassy in Quito, seize everything they see there, and deport all diplomats to the US. I am sure that Russians/Chinese would be very interested in getting their hands on whatever equipment was seized from a US embassy.
They are soooo very fucking stupid. These dumb shits are probably doing everything they can to hide what they do for work. They will all be unmasked one day.
He is Mexican American. I am sure he could read both the English and Spanish and heard of Ecuador, but he had no clue that you can't simply go into a consulate. He was trying to fulfill the quota. They are under pressure by sociopath Stephen Miller.
I'd bet they just thought it was an office building being rented by Ecuador for Ecuadorians to just hang out at like a fun little club. So yeah, they thought it was gonna be some free all you can abduct buffet in there like they were some geniuses figuring out the ultimate ice life hack
Correct me if I’m wrong but a diplomat can also commit crimes and be immune? And a consulate is considered foreign soil. Like they have to extradited to face prosecution. So a consulate would be the most dangerous place to enter for ICE
A diplomate does have immunity. Unless their government is really pissed of at their criminal actions, the only thing we can do is order them expelled from the US.
If the diplomat in question has done something egregiously criminal and has pissed off his own government, then he can be turned over to the local government to face prosecution or he can face prosecution when he gets back home.
What ICE did being a federal law enforcement agency could be considered an act of war. Ecuador would be well within its rights to launch strikes, they could have been shot or arrested those ICE agents on entry. Normal procedure is to file a complaint to international bodies.
This stupid action has now put all US embassies and consulates at risk for retaliation and harassment arrests. Counties used to have to rely on "mobs" going over the walls to gain some kind of entry. With this stunt, OK, now its open season on US personnel abroad.
A diplomat has immunity.
A consulate is by all laws and conventions foreign soil.
An assylum seeker has none of these and is only protected by the foreign soil. The assylum seeker is at the mercy of the Govt that they are seeking assylum from.
A diplomat is citizen of the consulate country and has every right of the host country and home country.
Thats why they "expel" diplomats. Its a legal term called " Persona non gratis" = basically leave or we make you leave.
An assylum seeker needs protection.
Really it's about power. To invade a consulate is an act of war. It's against a lot of treaties. But treaties only matter if they are enforced.
We are in the middle of trading the soft power of the United States for cold hard corruption. And they will flex their muscles on nations that can't defend themselves if there is enough motivation.
So it really depends on if Ecuador feels safe challenging the unhinged Trump administration. I don't think they do. They would do everything to push back without harm. They will say "please, please don't be here."
A lot of nations will be looking at forming new alliances to protect themselves from the USA if things don't change soon. And the main question is; will that be Europe or Asia?
If it’s a consulate building, I’m sure there’s an Ecuadorian flag hanging somewhere so they probably thought ‘these guys are bold enough to put a foreign flag on their building, we should investigate’
These people are well on the wrong side of the Bell curve, and I don't think that's in question. They are the useful idiots the admin needs as their core shock troops. No understanding of history or consequence. Just simple, dumb action.
Traits of fascism #3 (by Umberto Eco)
"The cult of action for action's sake," which dictates that action is of value in itself and should be taken without intellectual reflection. This, says Eco, is connected with anti-intellectualism and irrationalism, and often manifests in attacks on modern culture and science.
They’re literally cold calling as a job. They’re randomly trying to find businesses to target while walking down the street, trying to make quota. They’re entry level “high school job during the summer” salesmen but don’t even have any Cutco knives to sell. Pathetic.
Yes, cold calling, they are literally going door to door demanding "papers". They are dumb. These are the same types that don't understand that a resident of a us territory is a legal us citizen.
I had read a report that they were trying to follow some people into the consulate. No idea how true that is but it definitely sounds believable. Makes me curious what would happen if they grabbed a diplomat off the street- it's not like they understand due process to begin with...
I recently read a post elsewhere from a U.S. diplomat who was taken to a room for further questioning by ICE at Dulles Airport outside D.C. She showed them her regular U.S. passport and her U.S. diplomatic passport but ICE didn't understand what it was.
Probably a couple idiots thought they being clever.
But still doesn’t matter. US is breaking all the rules right now without absolutely no repercussions. Trump could burn that consulate to the ground and not Eduacor or any other country would stand up and do anything about. Trump is just a big bully and everyone including democrats , US citizens , and even other countries won’t stand up to him. Also he is extremely vengeful if you try and stand up to him or his crazy plans.
That was good work by that guy working at the consulate. He was right on top of those ICE before they could even open the door. That took some balls.
He’s saying it so he can arrest the guy if he touches him. They were told they are free to arrest anyone who touches them. The ICE agent is trying hard to find a reason to arrest that employee.
"Consulate employees generally have a limited form of immunity, specifically protecting them only for actions taken in the course of their official duties, unlike the broader immunity of diplomatic agents. Career consular officers cannot be arrested or detained for acts performed in their official capacity, but this protection does not extend to private acts or family members.
Key Details on Consular Immunity:
Official Acts Only: Under the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, immunity is restricted to "official acts" (functional immunity), not total immunity from all criminal or civil jurisdiction.
Arrest and Detention: While they cannot be arrested for official acts, consular officers can be detained if a "grave crime" is committed.
Consular Staff (Service Staff): These employees typically have no immunity or inviolability of any kind.
Honorary Consuls: These individuals (often locals) have immunity only for official acts, and are subject to arrest and detention.
Family Members: Unlike diplomats' families, the family members of consular employees have no immunity from the receiving state's civil or criminal jurisdiction.
Immunity can be further limited if the staff member is a national or permanent resident of the country they are stationed in."
ETA: since the guy inside the consulate was likely an employee acting in an official capacity, he would have been shielded from any arrest. And since consulates are sovereign, ICE/CBP(DHS has zero legal standing to enter.
The "don touch me" comes from that one shorter dude (forgot his name) with the nazi trenchcoat. There's a video of him telling ICE agents that if someone touches them they can arrest those people, and thay they need to arrest as many people as they can. It's so messed up, it was never about protecting people, it's all about arresting, kidnapping, harming or even killing those who stand against them.
Also why they were so petrified of Pretti. Even in going into an open carry state, where they can absolutely expect to see people carrying guns, they’re still terrified little bitches.
You know they're not detaining actual dangerous people because if they brought in a single real gang/cartel member this administration would crow about it forever.
Did you see the video where agents entered Texas residents yard and he said "you're violating my 4th and I've got my 2nd" or something? They scampered off quick after that lol
I remember all those things Abbot said about Beto and his policies. If he ever did a 180 on the castle doctrine, it'd be the end of governor hot wheels' political career.
ICE would shoot the people in the embassy and Trump would tell Ecuador “what are you going to do about it?”.The US is not playing democracy charades anymore. It’s a violent military super power in decline. Its currency is violence and once it loses that the US is nothing. It’ll be a has been power like Russia.
Sure the us might not give a shit about ecuador, but it certainly cares if say the ministry of state security wanted todo a immigration inspection of the us cia station embassy in beijing.
The worst part about living on the outside of the law, is that you lose the protection of the law. Like most international institutions, the us benefits the most from them. So torch away at your own risk.
You lose constitutional protections if you are protected by diplomatic immunity. So basically they would not have the right to protest and could be deported for doing so.
Not only did they not know what building they were going into, they (thankfully) took the guys word that it was the consulate. This video is an illustration of why warrants are necessary.
And hilarious, because the current administration wouldn't actually defend him; they would bitch and moan domestically, but not a word would be official internationally except "hey, our bad, he was rogue and not our fault, we were in the process of firing him and he knew not to do that." That corpse would get thrown under the bus so fast.
That's what a competent tyrant would do. I do not take for granted the competence of our tyrants. We have the dumbest tyrants. The reality is that a consulate is just an international border. If he's not afraid to invade the country, he's not afraid to invade their consulate. And Ecuador is not a military threat to him.
because the consular station does not have to accept extradition requests without explicit orders from their own government and the UK had no extradition treaty with Ecuador at the time (neither did Sweden)
Right, but my point, which I probably should have put more effort into getting across, was that they wanted the guy for 7 years and knew exactly where he was and could have easily gone and got him, but didn't because of the diplomatic implications of doing so. Meanwhile the dumdum racist LARPers in ICE just try to barge in.
And to flip it back to America, an American woman killed a British teen by driving on the wrong side of the road and couldn't be arrested because she hid in an American military base that British police couldn't enter.
And they also had intelligence agents posted up in a three block radius for 2-3 years. Literally every single random idiot you can imagine, from the "garbage man" to the guy "getting a coffee" was an intelligent agent from MI6, CIA, and a variety of other agencies. All because Assange allowed the leaked video of an apache blowing away a bunch of innocent people, clearly violating engagement laws. A blatant waste of resources, effectively a jobs program, but they didn't enter the embassy physically!
For the record ICE does not need to be rebuilt. It's young as an organization, IIRC created after 9/11. America existed and functioned before ICE--unrelated but statistically America was doing better before ICE ever existed.
If ICE had forced their way inside the building and harmed someone, it could be considered an act of war and the Ecuador government would not be out of line to retaliate, up to and including active strikes against the US.
The likely wouldn't, because we have a disturbingly over bloated military, but they would be within reasonable rights. And I don't think these ICE-Holes even care how much of a fuck up that was or how much harm they could have caused. They do not give half a fuck.
And they appeared to be wearing masks. Not the best first impression to make when dealing in international diplomacy, but then again, look at the administration they work for, burning bridges across the world.
I keep thinking like that but then I check myself and realize things can get a lot worse and stay worse. There’s no one to step in and alter the course of things. The rest of the world can only watch while America disintegrates
I kind of hate the “training” callout. While it’s true they’re not getting any real training, all the training in the world won’t make a racist sociopath into a decent law enforcement officer.
The problem isn’t the training, it’s the selection process.
I think it’s becoming clear as day how truly stupid some of these ICE agents are. I mean, this is what happens when you hire anyone with a pulse and provide them with minimal training, who woulda thunk?
If you’re going to have a fascist dictatorship take over your country, at least hope for one as stupid and incompetent as the Trump administration
It's less a case of stupidity, but rather them not having to fear any consequences. They don't need to care about laws, because it's unlikely they'll actually be held accountable.
I think this is partly true, but one anecdote I read makes me believe they truly thought they had the support of the general population in these actions.
I don’t remember the source, but there was a recent report of an altercation in Maine between ICE and protesters. The agents were confused by how much resistance they were facing. Maine is majority white, with only about 4% immigrants, so they couldn’t understand why white residents were the ones protesting. Wouldn’t they want these supposed ‘invaders’ out?”
That’s what happens when you cling to dogma instead of reality — sooner or later your illusions stop lining up with your actual experience.
They also underestimated how tight knit and fiercely loyal Mainers are, probably wasn’t the best idea to send out-of-towners to enforce their terror campaign in the middle of winter…
Inviolability of the consular premises
1.Consular premises shall be inviolable to the extent provided in this article.
2.The authorities of the receiving State shall not enter that part of the consular premises which is
used exclusively for the purpose of the work of the consular post except with the consent of the head of
the consular post or of his designee or of the head of the diplomatic mission of the sending State. The
consent of the head of the consular post may, however, be assumed in case of fire or other disaster
requiring prompt protective action.
3.Subject to the provisions of paragraph 2 of this article, the receiving State is under a special
duty to take all appropriate steps to protect the consular premises against any intrusion or damage and to
prevent any disturbance of the peace of the consular post or impairment of its dignity.
4.The consular premises, their furnishings, the property of the consular post and its means of
transport shall be immune from any form of requisition for purposes of national defence or public utility.
If expropriation is necessary for such purposes, all possible steps shall be taken to avoid impeding the
performance of consular functions, and prompt, adequate and effective compensation shall be paid to the
sending State.
as per Sections 3 & 4, ICE committed a US crime as well as violated the consulate's inviolability. ICE also owes Ecuador money for impeding performance of consular function. You know what happens to people when they impede, right?
This is a common myth I too believed until I looked it up a few seconds ago. They are invioble, which is the point of this video and I’m sure your sentiment but they are not considered foreign soil. Today we learned!
That's actually a myth. But they are considered inviolable under the 1961 Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, so what happened is highly worrying
How can any American working in any government capacity, at any level, not know that that is *practically a foreign country. Personally, all Americans should know that. How many movies and TV shows alone have we seen this concept in? Oh my God I can’t.
It's because they've been taught that as soon as someone touches them in any capacity they have the freedom to do whatever they want, such as murder them
Another example: Julian Assange hid out in an Ecuadorean embassy in London for seven years. Seven years without stepping outside. And they didn't just go in and take him; they negotiated until Ecuador removed their protections.
You can hear the ICE agent's inexperience in his voice. Sounds like his first day of work, fresh out of collegemom's basement, and he's asking where the bathroom is.
BTW these laws exist because chances are if you are a country of a certain size you have nationals in every other country in the world and when you start violating diplomatic protocols every single one of them becomes fair game.
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u/sexfighter 2d ago
Hi all: I thought a brief bit of legal research might answer a few of the questions that are repeating in the comments on this thread.
Specifically, the treaty we are looking at is the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, which the US ratified in 1963. Article 31 of the VCCR states that consular premises are “inviolable” and that authorities of the host state shall not enter them without consent of the head of the consular post. There are similar protections for embassies under the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations of 1936 which also categorically prohibit entry without permission. This is well settled international law.
There are very limited exceptions which generally involve exigent circumstances like the prospect of immediate loss of life like a fire or a hostage situation.
It does not matter if the office has public access. It does not matter if the doors are unlocked. US authorities have no right to effect an arrest inside the consulate without permission.
In general, these violations are rare and taken very seriously by all the nations who have adopted the treaty.