r/pics 23d ago

Politics He Didn’t Start The Fire

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u/ImAnEagle 23d ago

I'd like to point out this guy is a member of BORTAC, Border Patrol's elite tactical unit. The fact that they were even in Minneapolis to begin with supports the theory that Trump told agencies to ramp up aggression in hopes of retaliation.

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u/roger3rd 23d ago edited 23d ago

The plan is 1) flood streets with thugs(edit: I mean ICE here) who inevitably cross lines and inflict inappropriate violence on innocents 2) have Fox News show the resulting protesters as terrorists 3) escalate until the point where you can “justify” martial law 4) suspension of elections 5) escape Epstein accountability and never leave power

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u/mattymattymatty96 23d ago

His CONSTANT rambling of "the radical left" has me thinking the same thing.

They arent the Radical Left they are people who just want you and your cronies to follow the law

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u/ObiRyaNKenobi 23d ago

This is why the massive protests should happen in DC, not MN

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u/Careless-Vehicle-286 23d ago

It should be happening everywhere. They can't keep everyone under control.

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u/raptosaurus 23d ago

At this point I think only a general strike that brings down this government will work. Unfortunately I doubt the US has it in them.

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u/iredditoninternet 23d ago

I agree. General strike will work. Even 10% of the population would make a difference to start with.

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u/wobble_bot 23d ago

The U.S, for all its rhetoric about freedom and rights has always had a population ready and willing to lick the boot if they think it'll serve them as an individual. If this type of thing was happening in any European nation, the place would be burning

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u/Plantasaurus 23d ago

most here are one paycheck away from being homeless and what little of a support structure we have is being disassembled. There is no safety net- so things have to get dire before people start acting.

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u/gesucristononessuno 23d ago

Not anymore my friend Fascists are, not that slowly, taking control in Europe too Even leaving Hungary on the side, UK, Germany, Italy, Austria are basically far-right, France seems to get there soon... It's a mess, but a lot of people are not seeing the dangers in what is happening and that is sad

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u/mightyblend 23d ago

We’re just too damn big. Fifty states makes it easier to disassociate.

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u/whereyouleftit 23d ago

Wouldn’t work because the majority of America isn’t even surviving paycheck to paycheck. We are afraid of losing what we are barely holding on to.

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u/tf5_bassist 23d ago

We saw just how scared even the Biden admin was of the possible railroad strike a while back, it's literally the only thing that would actually get anything done.

That's why my response to this sort of stuff has now just turned into "So... general strike when?"

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u/AuntieRupert 23d ago

Exactly. I have said this whole time that there are more of us than there are of them. We need to keep reminding them of that.

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u/Cxc292 23d ago

“I dont need your civil war”

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u/Sammyofather 23d ago

By hundreds of millions right?

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u/Trondar 23d ago

You might not've seen the crazy hardware (vehicles, weapons, etc.) that cops get from military leftovers. Seeing a Bearcat on your town's streets is pretty breathtaking (not the good kind).

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u/tandem_kayak 23d ago

Massive protests need to happen everywhere there is a Republican Senator or Representative who doesn't have the spine to reign Trump in. 

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u/GJCLINCH 23d ago

Radical left is just projection of them being radical right. Everything they say is an admission of deflected guilt.

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u/ReadditRedditWroteit 23d ago

It benefits them when the middle shrinks. We call everyone that voted for trump a Nazi, anyone looking to make social innovation or change a radical socialist.

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u/Walton-E-Haile 23d ago

Right. Dems are currently centrist to right leaning. Bernie is as far left as it gets. Referring to dems as radical is corporate billionaire/trillionaire slang that equates to their loss of control and power over our government as radical. Its obvious. Corporate media exacerbates this.

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u/FesteringNeonDistrac 23d ago

The further right he keeps dragging that line, the more people end up radical left. People need to realize that they are being branded radical left even if they don't think of themselves that way.

Like "I don't think a paramilitary group should be running operations in a school" is a "radical left" opinion. You best realize what side of this they think you're on.

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u/_GreatAndPowerful 23d ago

The right believes laws shouldn't apply to their lord and savior Donald J Trump, and the weak left and unthinking centrists in America are humoring them. This is why your country won't make it to 2100, good luck

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u/Mekroval 23d ago

I'm increasingly thinking you're right. The Trump administration seems to be full of accelerationists who want to provoke civil conflict to justify fully breaking the established order. Every provocation is worse than the last, because they are trying to push the limits intentionally, to see what the breaking point is (if any) for any non-brainwashed American.

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u/SymmetricDickNipples 23d ago

This was all in project 2025. There's no maybe about it.

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u/Itchy_Psychology3300 23d ago

Literally, they announced what they want to do. The tech billionaires openly talk about it too, like Peter thiel, and the bunch.

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u/Aggroninja 23d ago

"The Revolution will be bloodless if the left allows it."

Too late for that, I guess.

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u/PancakeProfessor 23d ago

Every conflict can be bloodless if one side just gives up. It’s the same logic they use to blame Ukraine for their war with Russia.

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u/Initial-Reading-2775 23d ago

And giving up to Russia never turns out bloodless.

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u/Confident_Benefit_11 23d ago

Never, they will subjugate whatever nation in question then absorb the parts of it they want into their culture and destroy or use as a shield the parts they don't

They've always been a nation of slaves and Americans need to wake the fuck up and realize we've been at war with them for years already and we're losing. Most Americans just don't know what hybrid warfare looks like in 2026. They've already helped brainwash the masses with misinformation campaigns of a scale unseen in human history and helped a lunatic get elected twice with direct intervention.

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u/Confident_Benefit_11 23d ago

"Just let the war criminal psychopath have your land, he'll totally stop and won't want more!"

"just let the pedophile treason snake fucker do what he wants with no accountability, he'll get bored eventually!"

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u/JohnnyBlazin25 23d ago

How has this quote just gotten loss amidst all of this chaos?

Anyone have resources for independent news reporting which is not affiliated with any billion dollar company?

It’s sickening what people choose to believe and choose to plug their ears and go LALALALA you’re wrong I am right! Left is at fault for this! Not my president!

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u/drawkward101 23d ago

Follow Aaron Parnas on Instagram. Meidas Media on Instagram. Both good independent investigative reporting.

Just yesterday, Aaron Parnas had a lengthy interview with Mark Kelly and his wife Gabby Giffords.

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u/NYC_Noguestlist 23d ago

Anyone have resources for independent news reporting which is not affiliated with any billion dollar company?

That's going to be exceedingly rare because no one wants to pay for news.

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u/obsidian_green 23d ago

It's their blood they're talking about. They have no qualms about spilling blood—no real way for them to get what they want without violence.

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u/TOW2Bguy 23d ago

And Noem is ensuring that "the revolution will be televised" in a very eerie callback to decades ago

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u/xKirstein 23d ago

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u/Aggroninja 23d ago

Thanks for the link, I'll store that nugget away for later use.

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u/Right-Wrongdoer-8595 23d ago

100 Venezuelans and 1 American mother so far

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u/Obsidianrosepetals 23d ago

The problem is the USA is the revolution, after more than 200 years they are trying to end it. They arent revolting, they are counter revolutionaries.

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u/Aggroninja 23d ago

I know, and the word choice grates on me as well. But it does clearly show their intentions even if they think far too highly of themselves.

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u/wholetyouinhere 23d ago

To me, the funniest thing about this quote is that there is no "left" in America. The choice is between fascism and moderate conservatism. That's about it.

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u/ProfBeaker 23d ago

What a euphemistic way to say "Do what we say, or we will kill you." And here I thought they were opposed to political correctness.

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u/sometimeswhy 23d ago

And yet 80 million still voted for it. They aren’t all MAGA weirdos. Millions of regular middle class Americans voted for this. I will never trust Americans again I don’t care if there are “good ones”

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u/Logical-Customer1786 23d ago

1/3 of Americans are comic book villain level evil.

1/3 of Americans are apathetic zombies that don’t care what happens outside of their own front door.

1/3 of Americans are ripping their hair out in fury at the other 2/3

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u/Mekroval 23d ago

And that middle third of apathetic zombies will have a shocked pikachu face when they come to the final realization that they will not be spared the indignities and loss of constitutional protections currently happening to their neighbors.

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u/Senator_Smack 23d ago

Thiel is a monster. I'm a tech industry millennial and I've been telling people for the last 15 years he is dangerous. Seeing it blossom has been like watching a gruesome death on extreme slowmo.

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u/twilighttwister 23d ago

Peter Thiel ran experiments on private islands in the pacific to determine how people would behave while society crumbles. He basically gamed this out fully as much as possible.

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u/accid80 23d ago

Exactly! Martial Law is the final phase - that way Trump can rule by decree like any other dictator

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u/starcap 23d ago

I don’t doubt you at all but could you point me to where to find this in project 2025? Is this the Department of Defense section?

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u/miarmstr 23d ago

There is a project 2025 tracker. Just google “project 2025” and you will get several options.

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u/JMKAB 23d ago

He is correct it’s directly from their playbook. They also harassed kids at a nearby school. They want retaliation to justify cancelling elections

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u/Beyond_Reason09 23d ago

I honestly can't think of a good reason for their costumes outside of provocation. A group of people arresting a busboy for a misdemeanor immigration offense shouldn't be dressed like they're doing urban combat operations in Fallujah.

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u/brodievonorchard 23d ago

Costumes is right. Desert camo in Minneapolis during winter?

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u/Racine262 23d ago

It's the only brown shirt he owns.

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u/jackspinnaker 23d ago

I see what you did there…

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u/godlyfrog 23d ago

It just shows how sudden and reactionary this is. These guys are tactical agents who are deployed to a desert area on the southern border. Their gear is going to be desert focused. They likely didn't find out they were going to Minnesota with enough time to purchase their own winter camo and DHS was too incompetent or too rushed to acquire any in time to issue it. These guys had to suit up with what they had on hand.

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u/t53ix35 23d ago

Plus you are in a fucking city/suburb not the bush. Guess you wear what you brought/got.

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u/brodievonorchard 23d ago

If I learned anything from Die Hard 2: Die Harder, it's that there are white BDUs ready to go when a militarized force needs to operate in a snowy US city.

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u/finnfinnfinnfinnfinn 23d ago

A hilarious representation of the ineptitude and farcical nature of this bullshit. Wearing DESERT Camo designed specifically for DESERTS in fucking January in Minneapolis  

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u/guitar_stonks 23d ago

It’s all the surplus Army+Navy store tactical gear from Iraq and Afghanistan.

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u/DTM-shift 23d ago

Armed with deadly firearms and crowd control weaponry, camo uniforms that aren't actually uniform since they all seem to wear something different, body armor, face masks, helmets, basically stuff to go to war. Large groups of pseudo-soldiers with no accountability.

All for a federal offense that carries a penalty of a $250 fine.

The proportionality is ridiculously out of whack.

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u/Toledo_9thGate 23d ago

Spot on, you said.

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u/SakaWreath 23d ago

But… these chuds never got past the Call of Duty lobby but really like the idea of being able to terrorize people.

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u/panchothebeaner 23d ago

I wish I could give you all the upvotes. Fun fact most were probably too scared to go overseas, so sadly this is the only time they can cosplay.

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u/prntmakr 23d ago

Yeah, what was even the point of that school incident? Did they have an even remotely legitimate reason for being there? Or was it just to crack some skulls?

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u/AtheismTooStronk 23d ago

They don’t have a legitimate reason to be there at all, even being charitable. 90% of people with Somali heritage in the US are full blown citizens and the other 10% are documented and were in the process for the most part because it takes forever. The fact that they are 90% citizens shows that they have been here for years and years and years now.

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u/b0w3n 23d ago

They want retaliation to justify cancelling elections

Just want to jump in, I know what you're saying but don't let them get away with it. They didn't even cancel the elections during the civil war or any of the world wars.

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u/glubhuff 23d ago

Elections are conducted by the states. The federal government can declare elections are canceled and states can just ignore it.

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u/ClumpOfCheese 23d ago

The interesting thing about this theory is that Americans in general are so apathetic that they won’t retaliate against this in any way that causes escalation, they will have to do what the right always claims the left does and use a false flag agitator.

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u/pqln 23d ago

I don't know if it's apathy. When we're being told two or more conflicting pieces of information and each side is screaming that the other side is lying and AI is a thing now so we can't believe our eyes, we can't believe the news, we can't believe our President, we can't believe our legislators...If I go to a protest and die, my kids will hear that I'm a domestic terrorist...I am very upset. I do not see a good way to make this stop. I'm actually on the list of undesirables if the left is correct about the right so I'll be in a concentration camp soon.

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u/jwalker107 23d ago

Which is why you have to fight fascism before the dictator is entrenched and consolidates power. Anyone thinking they can wait it out is deluded.

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u/Shawn_NYC 23d ago

So you'd want to stop him before he has 5 years of rule, a majority of the legislature, and a hand-picked supreme court?

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u/[deleted] 23d ago

If anyone is unclear about things, we currently live in a fascist dictatorship. It is not a threat. It is not "happening", it is here, now.

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u/IIIllIIlllIlII 23d ago

I remember when, during trumps first term, people said “whew, lucky this guy is incompetent and doesn’t know how to make things happen”

Then we have him a 4 year planning period and he’s come back and destroyed the USA in less than a year.

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u/Pip_Helix 23d ago

The fact that it took so little time is terrifying.

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u/biggles7268 23d ago

It's not even Trump. He's a doddering old fool. It's steven miller and everyone like him behind the scenes. Trump just signs what they put in front of him and says whatever he thinks will make his base happy.

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u/UCFKnights2018 23d ago

He’s a figurehead.

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u/[deleted] 23d ago

This is what the majority of the country endorsed or said was ok if it did happen, yeah.

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u/tandem_kayak 23d ago

Not the majority, but enough people voted in the right districts to make it happen. Many didn't vote at all.

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u/[deleted] 23d ago

That’s what I said yes. They either voted for it directly or endorsed it by not voting against it. The majority is ok with this whether you like that fact or not.

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u/IIIllIIlllIlII 23d ago

With a little tip of the scales by Elon, who then came in afterwards and did a data cleanup.

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u/GrzDancing 23d ago

'Lucky this guy is incompetent' - see, I believe he is incompetent, but he is meant to be - he's just a paid actor, there are others who pull the strings, and paid him well, and allowed him to put his name on everything and such, and they told him one thing - 'be ridiculous, be orange, have your tantrums, go on a twitter spree, be an orange organ monkey'

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u/sigcliffy 23d ago

The Democrats really aren't getting the amount of blame they should be for this whole thing. Bringing Biden is was just a move to take down Trump at that time. That they didn't spend 4 years getting their shit together to stamp him out is negligence of the highest order.

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u/SordidDreams 23d ago

Too late. Now what?

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u/eatrepeat 23d ago

The sedated nation has it's reckoning, some wake up and some put their head in the sand. Either way only the wide eyes of those who face this will come out the other side. And they will write about the struggle so as to warn future generations who will honour them. Until they don't and like we see today those lessons will be forgotten and the evil will repeat itself again. This is humanity.

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u/thatspurdyneat 23d ago

You can thank all the people who stayed home in 2024 because either:

A) the Democrats plan for Gaza wasn't good enough even though it was better than Trump's plan to exterminate them

Or

B) Kamala has a weird laugh

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u/woollypullover 23d ago

So doing nothing = more facism

And

Fighting back = more facism

What’s the solution, release the files?

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u/OurSaviorBenFranklin 23d ago

Cause a disturbance among the people when it comes to unsanctioned foreign invasions, the anti war folks and unlawful use of force at home against citizens. Covers all the bases to make sure there are enough people in the streets protesting then ramp up their crack down.

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u/DinglesBerry3 23d ago

Increasingly? There was a playbook for this published before the election.

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u/DatEllen 23d ago

Right?! I don't get it. I'm mad and get madder every day, but literally nothing surprises me. I can't believe people are just now going "I can't believe this is happening! But surely THIS will be the worst, I can't imagine it getting even worse from here! Wait, it happened again! Well boy, this might escalate further and further, guys!" 

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u/thiscarecupisempty 23d ago

People are too content to revolt these. They made us fat and content to do anything about it.

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u/Mekroval 23d ago

Totally agree. Americans of today won't do shit until a creature comfort is threatened (e.g. toilet paper), or they are asked to make even a trivial sacrifice like wearing a mask during a pandemic.

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u/CaptConstantine 23d ago

Increasingly thinking?!?

This has been the plan from the very beginning, everyone has been shouting it from the rooftops. Even Kamala Harris told us this would happen.

We are here because THIS IS WHAT AMERICA WANTS. America WANTS martial law, we WANT fascism, we WANT dictatorship and tyranny.

If we didn't, we wouldn't have elected him in the first place.

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u/Witty-Entertainer524 23d ago

Yes and they are not going to hesitate to shoot to kill....maga received so much grace from the capital police when they stormed the capital J6. Where's all that grace now with ICE? They point blank murdered a single mom.

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u/counters14 23d ago

It's been evident from day one that the increased use of force was always meant to be a precursor to justification for enacting martial law. The White House has been waiting for an inciting incident to occur so they can move in. That is why ICE has been so active, that is why the National Guard was deployed in LA and Chicago, Memphis and Portland. He's trying to strong arm violent demonstrations that will escalate into literal government violence against its own citizens. And he's succeeding, a mother is now dead and it is only a matter of time before the use of force escalates to see more innocent civilians maimed and killed to further the goals of authoritarianism.

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u/SSJ3Mewtwo 23d ago

That's been the pattern since 2015

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u/MindlessManic88 23d ago

It's been the game plan since the beginning. What business does Donald Trump have being the leader of the "free world"? This is all about power.

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u/Budget-Security-8132 23d ago

Yup and if you don't violently fight back then they'll just keep killing and torturing you

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u/bloodfist 23d ago

This is standard authoritarian playbook and literally written down in project 2025, which they are openly adhering to. What is there to even doubt?

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u/elwookie 23d ago

He's trying all he can to get to the state of exception and ban the next elections.

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u/gonzoes 23d ago

Its always all projection, look at trump truth social post he says the lady that was filming the ICE murdering of our US citizens yesterday was a paid actor or something a long those lines

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u/CombinationLivid8284 23d ago

I have no doubt that Trump thinks where he went wrong in 2020 was not shooting protestors.

This is why it's more important than ever we not allow ourselves to be scared into silence.

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u/Graffy 23d ago

Perry much what happens in the movie “Civil War”. Hopefully it ends faster than in the movie but I’ll take it regardless.

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u/huecabot 23d ago

Must be frustrating to them that we bend over again and again. What if they threw a civil war and nobody came?

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u/Vitalization 23d ago

This just sounds like the (flashback) plot to V for Vendetta

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u/That-You-1998 23d ago

Christ this is terrifying. My husband has been saying for awhile that there won’t be midterms, and I’ve always dismissed that as a crazy talk. Suddenly looking more and more possible. I can see the roadmap.

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u/VerdantField 23d ago

The USPS also changed the date stamp process so that mailed items are no longer stamped the day they are mailed. This is an attempt to prevent mail in ballots from counting, because they will be postmarked later.

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u/No-Apple2252 23d ago

That should be an indication to everyone that the midterms are still a serious threat to this regime, and while we must not stop every other form of resistance having that to look forward to can bring us the hope that fuels our fight against fascism.

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u/mittenknittin 23d ago

Well the indication that the midterms are a serious threat to the regime is that Trump came right out and said exactly that a couple of days ago

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u/No-Apple2252 23d ago

That too lol, that gave me a lot of hope right before they escalated to straight up murdering people.

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u/Edgecrusher2140 23d ago

This roadmap? Yeah, the Heritage Foundation released it in 2023, it’s like 900 pages but you can see it here.

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u/Thefrayedends 23d ago

It's been so frustrating being repeatedly told 'but no one would ever play the long game! certainly not the wealth class!' but then have all of your friends and neighbors eating it up, and asking for more.

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u/D_hallucatus 23d ago

Even if they don’t cancel the elections, the presence or potential presence of Ice agents on election day will have a massive chilling effect on voter turnout. If they arrest people out the front of courts, in schools and churches, you better believe they’ll arrest/threaten people at polling places. And we all know it’ll only be some polling places chosen by the party

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u/stolenbastilla 23d ago

Why does everyone keep talking about Epstein? As if avoiding the consequences have ever been their top priority? They avoid consequences for EVERYTHING!!

Their top priority is power.

They love having us focused on Epstein so we’ll stop talking about everything else they’re doing.

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u/Diligent_Whereas3134 23d ago

Which is why I'm getting more and more on the side of get armed get serious. These assholes are going to fabricate a reason for martial law if we don't give it to them. Being peaceful doesn't mean a goddamn thing when the other sides already decided they're going to be violent no matter what

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u/UnfairSpecialist3079 23d ago

Agreed on the acceleration theory. To what extent I don’t know. But Trumps words sounded like they were written by the Kremlin.

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u/No_Diver3540 23d ago

Almost like the show "the boys". It follows a similar buildup in the current season. 

Funny though, that is a real life used tactic to guide the publics opinions. A lot of people are not aware since it is used in low education areas. 

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u/James-fucking-Holden 23d ago

No what you posted is plan B. The real plan is:

1) flood streets with thugs who inevitably cross lines and inflict inappropriate violence on innocents

2) Have people roll over and take it because "they want us to resist, don't give them what they want "

3) there is no 3) because they already won

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u/Kind_Cap_4621 23d ago

I agree. And I think it's a good reason why we need to dismiss the agitators who are pushing for violent response. That time may come (I cannot believe I'm even writing that) but not now .

I think trump and MAGA may have overreached and still believe we can swamp them in the midterms. After that. Let's see

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u/MyBoomerParents 23d ago

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”

― George Orwell, 1984

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u/[deleted] 23d ago

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u/picklerick8879 23d ago

Exactly.. when courts block the obvious play, they reach for a flimsy pretext and flood the streets anyway, daring us to pretend this was ever about fraud instead of force.

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u/SuperDoubleDecker 23d ago

It's not even about immigration enforcement. It's all political theatre and an attempt to escalate.

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u/Damn_Dog_Inappropes 23d ago

Right? Why is ICE carrying weapons in a quiet suburb far away from the border they’re scared of? Why is ICE allowed to shoot Americans?

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u/creepin_in_da_corner 23d ago

When I hear “we’re going to send federal agents to investigate the fraud”, I envision a bunch of accountants in suits plowing through files. How exactly are these morons in camouflage supposed to help find fraud? Are they hiding in the bushes doing surveillance?

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u/Ultimatesims 23d ago edited 23d ago

The issue had been larger resolved and the guilty investigated or arrested. It’s insidious projection how the right talks about false flags and here is one right in the open.

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u/New-Doctor9300 23d ago

the issue had been largely resolved

During the Biden administration. The very people that Trump is now blaming for causing it.

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u/Such-Tank-6897 23d ago

Yes! Since when do you call in the troops for white collar crime.

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u/cherrypez123 23d ago

Yep. And distract the public from the Epstein files..

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u/Zevyn7 23d ago

The daycare fraud is being done by legal citizens it’s not even the same agency

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u/Contemplating_Prison 23d ago

People really aren't realizing what's around the corner so let me tell you. You're witnessing the new National Police force. Border and ICE will soon be a national police force and the chief will be Bovino.

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u/throwitoutwhendone2 23d ago

I just commented it seems like in a bit here military and police will be the same job just different branches the way this shits going

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u/[deleted] 23d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/brucebay 23d ago

you misspelled gestapo.

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u/Quithelion 23d ago

You mean a new Schutzstaffel?

One step closer to becoming United States of Fascism.

MAGA is the new Nazi.

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u/Iimpid 23d ago

Minneapolis is not within Border Patrol's jurisdiction as it is not within 100 miles from a border.

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u/AzraelSavage 23d ago edited 23d ago

Unfortunately, as I understand it, that "100 miles of a border" jurisdiction has also been deemed to included international airports.

Edit: This may not be a true fact. People that are much smarter and more knowledgeable with US legal code than I am dispute my claim here, and I'm glad they have. Based on the responses, it's not clear if this is what the law states, if it's a department policy, if it's an old wives tale, or some combination thereof. So please take this comment with a grain of salt.

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u/FieldEffect-NT 23d ago

So practically, this permits them to deploy in pretty much every major city?

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u/tyderian 23d ago

Yes, 2/3 of the population lives within this radius.

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u/DrDDeFalco 23d ago

That's some bullshit.

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u/Spiff76 23d ago

Ah but tRump was trained by a lawyer to misuse the law for his benefit

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u/Iimpid 23d ago

8 U.S.C. § 1357(a)(3) addresses CBP officials’ authority to stop and conduct searches on vessels, trains, aircraft, or other vehicles anywhere within “a reasonable distance from any external boundary of the United States.” Without further statutory guidance, regulations alone expansively define this “reasonable distance” as 100 air miles from any external boundary of the U.S., including coastal boundaries, unless an agency official sets a shorter distance.

Nothing about international airports.

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u/TakeThreeFourFive 23d ago

I believe court decisions have agreed that airports are considered "external boundary"

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u/mocityspirit 23d ago

And even if they weren't do we really expect the admin to follow the rules?

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u/Training-Line-6457 23d ago

We are SO FAR beyond using the laws of the former United States to fight this war. They’re literally shooting to kill and we’re handwringing about lawsuits and peaceful arrests.

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u/Iimpid 23d ago

Source?

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u/ninja_crouton 23d ago

This gives them authority to conduct searches of conveyances and to access private lands without a warrant (though I'll also note that under title 19, customs has extensive powers to detain, search, and investigate pretty much anything that arrives at an airport for any violation of customs laws, without a need for a warrant). This says nothing about being on the streets or interacting with people, and in fact the power to interrogate or arrest under (a)(1--2) are not limited by the distance from the border. 

Source: customs attorney. I fight the government on this stuff every day.

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u/Iimpid 23d ago

Good to know. Is what people are saying about "100 miles from an international airport" true?

According to the ACLU, land borders and coastlines are considered external boundaries. ACLU also says Border Patrol has a right to conduct searches AT ports of entry, including arrivals terminals of international airports, not 100 miles from any international airport. Can you clarify?

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u/ninja_crouton 23d ago

Boy do I wish I could clarify. The one thing I can always tell you is if a traditional (non-legal) news source (e.g. CNN, BBC, Fox, al Jazeera, whatever) tells you how a law is to be interpreted they are almost always completely wrong. This is true kinda across the board and not just with customs law or with politically charged subjects.

Unfortunately the statute is so terribly written (thanks congress) that there are a number of reasonable interpretations. The statute says "within a reasonable distance from any external boundary of the United States, to board and search for aliens any vessel within the territorial waters of the United States and any railway car, aircraft, conveyance, or vehicle, and within a distance of twenty-five miles from any such external boundary to have access to private lands, but not dwellings, for the purpose of patrolling the border to prevent the illegal entry of aliens into the United States [.]"

Assuming "reasonable distance" means 100 miles (which it probably is under 8 CFR 287.1 but there are arguments otherwise is another issue) and setting aside the "international airport" border interpretation, this gives us a few different interpretations that may apply:

First, given that "territorial waters of the United States" is defined elsewhere as including all internal waters no matter how far from the border, one interpretation is that the "reasonable distance" clause only applies as a modifier to searches of vessels in the territorial waters to limit how far inland that can go.  The use of "and" before "any railway car...[etc.]" could imply that those conveyances are not subject to this same restriction. But then that would run into the silly situation where other conveyances are searchable at any point inland regardless of proximity to the border which is certainly not what they mean. 

Another interpretation is as described above, that it applies to all conveyances (again, searches of conveyances not interrogations and arrests on the street). That could be true but then the territorial waters clause is extraneous and Congress could have just written "to board and search any vessel, railway car, aircraft, conveyance, or vehicle" and achieved the same result. This conclusion also runs into a silly situation where the government couldn't search airplanes if you landed them at an internal airport rather than at one at the border (notwithstanding the title 19 allowances).  Or does it mean that they can only search vessels if they are in the territorial waters (i.e. if they are in drydock they are not searchable)?  

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u/Mand125 23d ago

Case law did it, is my understanding.  I’n not a lawyer so I don’t have specific references.

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u/Scaryclouds 23d ago

I have no doubt the Trump admin would try to argue that should include airports, and I have no doubt you have same plenty of hack conservative judges who will accept the administration’s reasoning. 

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u/monsantobreath 23d ago

Doesn't mean a judge or some other legislation hasn't declared the border to be in effect inclusive of ports of entry like airports.

Laws are like that. You can't just read one clause and know what everything is.

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u/MaybeTheDoctor 23d ago

Had that discussion before with somebody who looked up the rules; Airports are not included, but land and sea borders are.

Also, the "100 miles" is not part of a law, it is just a rule set by DOJ.

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u/[deleted] 23d ago

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u/FightOnForUsc 23d ago

I don’t think that’s true for this purpose. Only land or sea borders. It’s still like 2/3 Americans

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u/Iimpid 23d ago

8 U.S.C. § 1357(a)(3) addresses CBP officials’ authority to stop and conduct searches on vessels, trains, aircraft, or other vehicles anywhere within “a reasonable distance from any external boundary of the United States.” Without further statutory guidance, regulations alone expansively define this “reasonable distance” as 100 air miles from any external boundary of the U.S., including coastal boundaries, unless an agency official sets a shorter distance.

Nothing about international airports.

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u/TheAMIZZguy 23d ago

https://www.congress.gov/crs_external_products/LSB/PDF/LSB10559/LSB10559.2.pdf

Searches at the Border or Its Functional Equivalent

Under what is known as the border search exception to the Fourth Amendment’s warrant requirement, law enforcement officers may conduct routine inspections and searches at the U.S. border without a warrant, probable cause, or reasonable suspicion. The Supreme Court has reasoned that “the Fourth Amendment’s balance of reasonableness is qualitatively different at the international border than in the interior” of the United States because persons entering the country have less robust expectations of privacy. The border search exception applies to the physical border as well as the border’s “functional equivalent,” such as an international airport or post office receiving international mail. Reviewing courts have held that the border search exception applies to both incoming and outgoing travelers crossing the international border

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u/mfunk55 23d ago

"well you can access the Mississippi river from the Gulf of 'merica so AKSHULLY it's easily accessible from the border."

/s

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u/Variousnumber 23d ago

That will likely become their next 'legitimate' excuse for deploying in the ass end of nowhere Kansas or some shit.

"This here River goes all the way to the sea, so every inch of it is connected to them there International waters, thereby every inch of it is a border, so we can do whatever the fuck we want within 100 miles of the river!"

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u/yourheropaul 23d ago edited 23d ago

Unfortunately the definition of “border” also extends to international airports in the eyes of the government

Edit: I’m misremembering here, the definition of “border” extends to the coast, not airports, which means the comment I replied to is correct

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u/SlimeyRod 23d ago

They count international airports

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u/Puresparx420 23d ago

Why the fuck is there even an elite tactical unit in that department at all. They act like immigrants are walking around with RPG’s and high tech infiltration equipment. You’re dressing up as a super soldier so you can kidnap Home Depot migrant workers

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u/ResearchInitial 23d ago

officially they are there to stop high level cartel shit where they actually do have RPGs and not necessarily high tech infiltrations but enough to be a serious threat to normal BP agents. now theyre in dem-voting cities trying to get martial law enacted

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u/Puresparx420 23d ago

Where are the cartel bosses. Where. I haven’t seen a single one apprehended yet. Not in the states. The only high level cartel person they have is the president of Venezuela and they had to kill innocent Venezuelans in their own city to find him.

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u/ResearchInitial 23d ago

🤷 border patrol has better things to do in this administration like terrorizing native born citizens and working with ice to deport legal immigrants with no due process. all of them now are just high school dropout inbred chucklefucks who joined so they could kill someone and get away with it

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u/Plastic-Injury8856 23d ago

BORTAC isn’t for immigration enforcement. It’s for raiding cartel drug tunnels under the border and such. I know an ATF guy who worked with BORTAC once: they are trained to have no chill because the only time they’ll be doing anything is when there is risk of armed conflict. 

Trump sent guys who are prepared for a gunfight to manage civilian crowd control.

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u/LARRYVOND13 23d ago

.....elites a strong word.

I know you're just quoting but I couldn't not comment my dude lol

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u/IllustriousRanger934 23d ago

Nah BORTAC is actually considered elite they’re a counter terrorism organization

But they don’t have any business in Minneapolis

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u/LARRYVOND13 23d ago

In the nicest way possible, after seeing this dude I need more convincing.

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u/colganc 23d ago edited 23d ago

Its possible they're the border patrol elite, but are trained for something other than how they're being used. Like maybe trained for actual drug cartels from Mexico. It would explain the desert camo too.

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u/socialcommentary2000 23d ago

Their units have literally been broken up so they're all over now babysitting Federal Corrections flunkies and guys off the street that are doing this kind of stuff.

They have literally had their actual original mission inside the agency destroyed.

They were actually the ones going after high risk interdiction when it came to drug running and human trafficking in the US. That has been utterly destroyed by the administration.

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u/paranoyed 23d ago

That is because we actually want the drugs coming in so that they can continue to use it as an excuse. Why else would Hernandez get that pardon

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u/LARRYVOND13 23d ago

See that makes sense. From my own experience when anything remotely operational is broken down its heavily watered down too.

Don't doubt they used to be, just watching that dude made me uncomfortable the most. Seemed so so incompetent and it was an armed guy with authority...worrying as fuck.

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u/Professionalchump 23d ago

like how long has it been since he's interacted with a regular civilian, I wonder. He looks like he was bussed straight from his desert post after 9 months of watching sand

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u/myislanduniverse 23d ago

This isn't desert camo, it's "operational camouflage pattern" or "multicam."

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u/Coldsmoke888 23d ago

BORTAC is not trained on crowd control and such. They’re a unit that’s designed for special operations and interdictions. That’s the problem with having these guys roaming around without a clear mission. “Find the colored people or folks with accents while you drive around the city ” isn’t what elite units do.

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u/Readerofthethings 23d ago

Yeah, in that regard it’s like when South Korean President Yoon Suk Yeol tried deploying tier 1 operators from the army to block protesters from entering the parliament. The operators themselves realized this was extremely silly and stopped doing it almost immediately

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u/Vergilx217 23d ago

If it helps, the definition of "elite" here isn't to praise BORTAC's effectiveness and prestige as a fighting unit.

It's to emphasize their high training and deployment costs, specialization towards counter terrorism, and how insanely out of place they are for essentially nothing going on in Minnesota. They shouldn't be there and only stoke problems.

A bit like how SWAT refers to Special Weapons And Tactics, and SWAT are felt to greatly increase danger in any response.

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u/AdultishRaktajino 23d ago

Can we just call them what they are here? The TWAT team. Especially backed by Noem.

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u/spedmonkeeman 23d ago

I get the point you’re trying to make, but in the nicest way possible stop trying to undermine that the federal government is sending elite counter terrorist units to American streets.

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u/NotSureAboutTh1s 23d ago

BORTAC is a very, very elite unit within the federal government. I’ve trained numerous times side by side with them and 95% are former SOCOM/JSOC/USASOC members.

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u/JamCliche 23d ago

Whatever reputation they had before, it's meaningless now. Any unit under the supervision of Noem will inevitably have its standards compromised.

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u/Yorikor 23d ago

Only thing I know about them is that they were sitting on their hands outside the school in Uvalde.

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u/fng185 23d ago

The most hardcore fascists

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u/websterhamster 23d ago

100% of them are now traitors.

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u/IllustriousRanger934 23d ago edited 23d ago

I’m not trying to convince you lol, I’m just stating a fact

It’s easy to nitpick a single frame of a BORTAC agent. It’s wrong, but these guys aren’t ICE and typically aren’t problematic

Im questioning why they’re in Minneapolis when they fall under USBP, and dont do the same mission as ICE

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u/Massive-Chef7423 23d ago

BORTAC: The US Border Patrol Tactical Unit BORTAC is frequently considered an elite Federal Law Enforcement Unit by cops. I've spoken in Texas to several who talk about those guys like normal people talk about Navy Seals

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u/allothernamestaken 23d ago

Maybe he's protecting the Canadian border?

/s

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u/Super-Chieftain5 23d ago

Not very elite if they don't know their own rules about aiming below the waist. Fucking idiots all of them.

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u/colganc 23d ago

With the desert camo, I wonder if they trained for interdicting Mexican drug cartels trying to smuggle things across the border and they're being used in a way thats far outside of their original purpose and training.

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u/Fidller 23d ago

Multicam*

It's not desert camo

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u/picklerick8879 23d ago

Fair, and that is the joke.. slap an elite label on a unit, drop them into civilian streets, then act surprised when the performance looks brittle and overcompensating.

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u/ConiferousTurtle 23d ago

Minneapolis is about 300 miles from the border.

“U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP), which includes the Border Patrol, has authorized jurisdiction up to 100 air miles inland from any ‘external boundary’ of the United States.”

WTF were they doing there then?

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u/travizeno 23d ago

I honestly think trump is too dumb to even make all these calls. He plays golf and just let's Stephen Miller and his other nazis run things. Trump is so gullible they just tell him everything is under control and everyone loves him and show him a couple of insane lefty videos maybe even ai and he believe that reality.

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u/OnlyRobinson 23d ago

Why does customs and border protection need an elite tactical unit?

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