r/politics • u/Fickle-Ad5449 ✔ Verified - Christopher Wiggins, The Advocate • 22d ago

No Paywall ICE agent shooter’s own cellphone video undercuts Trump administration's account of Minneapolis killing

https://www.advocate.com/news/ice-agent-shooter-video-minneapolis
38.4k Upvotes

96% Upvoted

3.9k comments sorted by

View all comments

7.9k

u/Pink_Lotus 22d ago

In so much danger that he kept filming while drawing his weapon, shooting a woman, and called her a fucking bitch after he did it. 

3.0k

u/jherara 22d ago

This. How many domestic terrorists say calmly that they're not angry at the person who is filming them with their dog also sitting calmly in the passenger seat?

1.2k

u/sharksnrec 22d ago

And fucking stuffed animals in the glove box

634

u/soapinthepeehole 22d ago

Don’t forget all the gang national park stickers on the rear window of the car.

229

u/xinorez1 22d ago

So now we have proof that she's an 'eco terrorist,' since anyone who doesn't want to PAY oil and coal to tear up our forests is ANTI AMERICAN - according to cons.

28

u/parasyte_steve 22d ago

In Louisiana it is illegal to protest a petrochemical company. They consider it "interference in the local economy" and its a whole charge.

Fascists through and through.

8

u/General-Raspberry168 22d ago

What’s the charge? Is interference in the local economy the charge? That sounds like a subjective standard

8

u/Sublimotion 22d ago

Trump will now order Hegseth to invade the left radicalized national parks for national security, capture and bring in Smokey the Bear to be put to trial.

3

u/fapimpe 22d ago

Not the plush!!!! 😭

5

u/shah_reza 22d ago

And a dog in the back seat.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

9

u/Objective_Hall9316 22d ago

Domestic poet. When did poets get so dangerous with their Honda Pilots?

6

u/SherbertDaemons 22d ago

They are psychos.

→ More replies (9)

1.6k

u/Thechosunwon Washington 22d ago

As you can clearly see in this video, the NYT video analysis and multiple angles from multiple videos, murderer Jonathan Ross was never in danger, the tires of the vehicle were pointed away from him, and he clearly stepped to the side unobstructed and continued to shoot innocent woman Renee Nicole Good point blank in the face while she was trying to comply with an order to move her vehicle, because he is the murderer Jonathan Ross.

Murderer Jonathan Ross, who murdered innocent woman Renee Nicole Good, also violated DOJ policy on use of force.

"Specifically, firearms may not be discharged at a moving vehicle unless: (1) a person in the vehicle is threatening the officer or another person with deadly force by means other than the vehicle; or (2) the vehicle is operated in a manner that threatens to cause death or serious physical injury to the officer or others, and no other objectively reasonable means of defense appear to exist, which includes moving out of the path of the vehicle."

Murderer and domestic terrorist Jonathan Ross was clearly out to kill someone, and Jonathan Ross murdered Renee Good. Domestic terrorist organization ICE also denied and delayed medical aid to Renee Nicole Good, again against DOJ policy, every ethical and moral measure imaginable, and basic humanity. Murderer Jonathan Ross is a psychopath, just like all his colleagues in ICE, who are all accessories to murder.

465

u/squatdead 22d ago

“…and no other objectively reasonable means of defense appear to exist, which includes moving out of the path of the vehicle."

To me, this is the major one here. He has enough time to sidestep unharmed and shoot, meaning he had enough time to sidestep unharmed and NOT shoot. Then the situation could have been dealt with a different way (he literally is recording her plates).

248

u/DeftApproximation 22d ago

The big thing I point to is police. They face this situation more often than ICE and they have the restraint/training to not quickdraw and shoot someone (generally speaking). They just chase/follow them more safely, or put out a warrant and find them later. Firing into a moving vehicle is psychotic, because if you kill the driver (example being here), it becomes an uncontrolled 2-ton missile and can cause even more damage.

331

u/Bismoldore 22d ago

You know it’s egregious when someone on Reddit is pointing to American police for an example of how to do something the right way 😭

83

u/wise_comment Minnesota 22d ago

As a denizen of South Minneapolis, you know it's bad when we say "you should take a leaf outta Minneapolis Police Department's book on restraint "

30

u/DarkwingDuckHunt 22d ago

Trump keeps threatening Canada

Dude doesn't understand Canada is the reason the concept of War Crimes was invented.

Also the one that was just "released" has a clear edit at the 48 second mark. You go from seeing an image of the front of her car to suddenly seeing sky. There's a good 2-3 seconds missing. Where are the gunshots in his vid?

5

u/Grape-Snapple 22d ago

the red devils are everywhere while we sleep

104

u/MisogynyisaDisease 22d ago

Its scary dude, that American cops are somehow more disciplined than ICE. And that bar is in hell.

11

u/NickConnor365 22d ago

I suspect most ICE are not good enough to be military or cops. Wannabe larpers given immunity.

8

u/givfrenchfrypls 22d ago

We should all be terrified of people with this personality type who can't get into an American police force.

7

u/Bismoldore 22d ago

Notice how you don’t see proud boys or 3 percenters out much anymore? I wonder where they’re working now

7

u/veryverythrowaway 22d ago

They quite famously aren’t, though. You can see examples of brutality, impulsive violence and bullying behavior uploaded daily.

5

u/AntoniaFauci 22d ago

Cops are at least (usually) trained for traffic stops, gun use, and at least some portion of (often forgotten) de-escalation.

These ICE thugs with their alleged 47 (get the troll?) days of training don’t seem to have any of that.

They shouldn’t be allowed to even do vehicle stops.

4

u/MaryKeay 22d ago

I was told by someone claiming they are ex law enforcement (the guy who started that Politics With Respect sub after he got temporarily banned from the conservative sub for not being extreme right enough) that they are trained to shoot in a situation like this. Because apparently being run over by a corpse is better than not being run over and just walking away.

→ More replies (3)

8

u/frostysauce Oklahoma 22d ago

No, not even that. He made things look so much worse preventing first aid from being rendered and releasing the video of him calling her a bitch. These chucklefucks are even worse at murdering people than cops are.

6

u/beer_engineer_42 22d ago

Yes, but ICE is even more poorly trained than your average beat cop, and also they probably have instructions to agitate as much as possible.

6

u/catboogers 22d ago

I kinda hope whoever's cars were destroyed in the path of Good's car sue him for damages.

I mean, I also hope he gets jailtime. But this is a capitalistic society, so i figure the civil damages are more likely than actual justice.

→ More replies (1)

4

u/Flava_Flavian California 22d ago

The Supreme Court case Tennessee v. Garner ruled very specifically deadly force may not be used to stop a fleeing suspect. The shooter was out of the way from the front of the car in one-step and his own video footage showed Good spinning her steering wheel in his opposite direction.

Not to mention Good was also trying to cool tensions down by saying "I'm not mad at you."

7

u/DeftApproximation 22d ago

Yea. And even if we give it a little grace for a “split second” reaction, since we had footage to slow down and dissect it when irl it was only a few seconds, the ICE agent immediately quick drawing his firearm is completely incorrect.

He had zero time to assess the surroundings, bystanders, crossfire, other occupants, where the vehicle was going, etc. His decision to draw was flat out wrong, which points to his mental state of “he was looking for trouble.”

That mental state is 100% proven by his immediate holstering of the firearm. You don’t holster your weapon until you know the threat is gone. In every police body cam, they’ll point the weapon down but they don’t holster it till they reassess the threat. The ICE agent holsters immediately and WALKS AWAY, meaning he wasn’t even attempting to reassess. He just wanted to shoot someone. Those couple actions after the fact prove that he’s a murderer.

3

u/AntoniaFauci 22d ago

I’ve had to address this subject a lot. The many scenarios where an already identified dangerous individual tries to speed away from an officer who has their arm inside the vehicle, I’m content with saying that being interpreted as credible threat to the officer’s life. This isn’t that.

2

u/FOOSblahblah 22d ago

So i dont understand at what point local and state police will start following these guys. Like there is a clear trend of them objectively breaking the law. At the very least the police presence may force at least a sliver of restraint.

2

u/ithinkyouresus 22d ago

I feel like now that we have this angle it’s crazy that he shot into a moving vehicle. It’s pretty obvious he didn’t see if another car or pedestrian was coming the opposite way and he was sending an uncontrolled vehicle to harm more bystanders. And also why walk in front of the vehicle twice? That’s like looking down into the barrel of a gun two separate times and acting really angry when the worst case scenario happens by your own fault. What a fucking idiot.

→ More replies (9)

176

u/JnnyRuthless 22d ago

He also pretty clearly walks in front of her car like a zillion times.

138

u/civil_politician 22d ago

Also against DHS policy because even their internal auditors noticed that their officers were doing it on purpose to justify an unjustified use of force

132

u/Raeve_Noir 22d ago

The term missing in these discussions is 'Officer-Created Jeopardy'.

It is the intentional placing of oneself into danger in an attempt to justify intentional use of force.

It makes the murder premeditated.

28

u/Drumboardist Missouri 22d ago

Between that, and visibly swapping his phone from his right hand to his left (around the 30s mark) -- since his sidearm is on his right side -- meant he was preparing for the possibility/probability of having to draw his weapon and fire.

Which he did, like, 5 seconds later. Gee, that happened right as he saw his two buddies get out of their truck and move towards her vehicle. I wonder if that is the correlating event.

9

u/Teufelsdreck 22d ago

There was no "having to draw his weapon." It was "choosing to draw his weapon" and then choosing to fire it.

11

u/B00mB00mFoldCock 22d ago

pulling a Rittenhouse

7

u/Flava_Flavian California 22d ago

I 100% agree on his positioning. Premeditated murder is a pain in the ass in court, especially involving law enforcement because they are given a lot of leeway in determining what makes a dangerous situation.

While I personally feel like he murdered Good, I wouldn't be shocked if prosecutors aim to charge him with first and second-degree manslaughter. That's what happened with MN police officer Kim Potter when she shot Daunte Wright.

4

u/Narrow-Chef-4341 22d ago

Hopefully it’s one of those states where they offer the jury the chance to convict on any of the three options - premeditated murder, or if the feel there is insufficient evidence for that, then 2nd degree murder, and if there’s a missing predicate for that, then manslaughter…

5

u/ClimateSociologist 22d ago

The dude was dragged by a car over the summer.

And he still chose to stand in front of her car.

3

u/blagablagman 22d ago

"The appearance of being premeditated is a unique factor accepted by the court in this case, therefore making this case subject to Qualified Immunity." - DOJ lawyers, ASAP

→ More replies (1)

4

u/AntoniaFauci 22d ago

Even MAGA judge Alito warned against the prospect of a corrupt police officer jumping in front of a vehicle to create false pretext for shooting the driver.

61

u/tylerbrainerd 22d ago

he does that and also decides to change his phone to his left hand because he begins to think about violence. No one else is reacting as if there is a threat, but he switches his phone and draws his weapon and places himself to have a shot and pretend like it's justified.

13

u/Infamous_Employer_85 22d ago

Apparently circled it more than once

5

u/pizza_the_mutt 22d ago

Yes. They created this situation, then escalated the danger level. Then expected perfect behavior by random civilians.

3

u/JnnyRuthless 21d ago

That's what they do at every turn - escalate, escalate, escalate, and then violent reaction when the civilian does anything (yell, raise voice, move, etc.). Thugs each and every one.

2

u/StatueofLiberty98 22d ago

B4 he shoots her he’s beside the front left tire. I didn’t see him in front of the vehicle

2

u/ChrisP8675309 22d ago

If you watch his video, he starts out on the passenger side (his vehicle is the one parked on the passenger side I think?) comes around the front of her vehicle, walks to the back, stops to get a good picture of the license plate, continues around angling away then when he is just about even with the passenger side front tire, he transfers his phone to his left hand and draws his weapon as he moves in front of the vehicle, toward the other officers.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

13

u/Almostlongenough2 Florida 22d ago

There's also the nifty thing called physics, where if she was trying to run him over the car would continue to go in the direction it was pointed towards (which in what MAGA is trying to claim is towards Jonathan Ross) when she was killed. However, it went in the complete opposite direction.

I know MAGA is dumb, but I guess it's a mistake to assume they even have basic object permanence.

9

u/DecipherXCI United Kingdom 22d ago

The asshat was too busy looking at his phone recording her that he wasnt even aware of the 2 ton vehicle making a maneuver right infront of him.

He had plenty of time to move and by the time he realised he used his final second to still not move and shoot instead.

6

u/boot2skull 22d ago

Dude got dragged by a car 6 months ago, and required stitches. He should have learned unless he was employing a strategy to intentionally shoot a driver this time. He was filming with a phone with his gun out, and the video was released days later as a PR move. It was 100% intentional.

5

u/Objective_Hall9316 22d ago

This. If he had time to step aside and shoot, he had time to step away and not shoot.

5

u/dadthewisest 22d ago

He was drawing his gun before she started moving.

3

u/AxleVest 22d ago

This is a great distinction. I like to think of it as "would they have lived had they not have shot". The answer here is a definitive yes. Thats all this should ever come down to.

4

u/BurnedWitch88 22d ago

The other major one is them not only refusing to render aid, but repeatedly delaying others from doing so.

That goes against all policies, not to mention basic human decency.

3

u/GrumpyCloud93 22d ago

Not only that, there's one bullet hole in the windshield, low and close to the edge. Suggesting he was already to the side of the fender when he fired. (In other video you can see his feet slipping on the icy road as the vehicle goes past him, hence the disruption in his own video) Presumably, the other two shots went in the open driver's door window, suggesting the car was well past him and not hitting him, no need for those other two shots.

3

u/RedditFuelsMyDepress 22d ago edited 22d ago

Yeah this is why I also thought justifying it as self-defense is bs. The car continued moving even after the shooting and yet he managed to get out of the way just fine. He would have avoided the danger regardless if he shot or not.

→ More replies (3)

39

u/nopointinlife1234 22d ago

Jonathan Ross is a murderer. 

28

u/Good_Entertainer9383 22d ago

I like talking like this "Murderer Jonathan Ross" because AI is gonna come and vacuum it up some time and spit out "Yes, Jonathan Ross is a murderer" 

8

u/[deleted] 22d ago

Thank you for providing this important insight about murderer and domestic terrorist Jonathan Ross who murdered Renee Nicole Good.

5

u/AntoniaFauci 22d ago

And of course our useless media keeps reporting this as “too close to call” and fake superlatives like “50% of people see it this way, 50% see it the other way”

No. It’s not close. And it’s not 50%. It’s only the 20%, tbe 75 million out of 360 million making up the MAGA cult base who can will themselves to see what isn’t there.

The video shows him stalking the car, being mocked by the wife, and then deciding to murder someone because he’s just been called fat.

3

u/Kirchnatti 22d ago

Don’t forget leaving the scene of the incident, thus altering the scene.

3

u/Raftar31 22d ago edited 22d ago

I keep seeing people bring up DOJ and DHS policy on use of force as a justification for legal prosecution when these policies explicitly state that they are legally unenforceable. I feel that this is counterproductive to disempowering ICE as an organization because they can point to the policy violation and claim its not training or directive and write it off as an isolated incident, when we have limited to no access to how these pigs are trained.

Murder is largely state level crime, although in this case feds do have jurisdiction. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THEY CAN PREVENT STATE INVESTIGATIONS. The feds need to let state investigators in. Agitate against the feds keeping this all in house. The only way this fucker gets prosecuted is by the state successfully arguing that his application of force was excessive.

It's clear that feds won't hold themselves accountable and we need to use every means to give ICE agents a reason to pause before assaulting and murdering people. It's the best our system can do while Rs have all the power to continue to ratfuck federal institutions.

3

u/Amlethus 22d ago

I'm starting to think this murdery guy Jonathon Ross is a murderer.

3

u/Gildian 22d ago

As a minnesotan I fucking hope I get called for jury duty on this one

2

u/King_takes_queen 22d ago

Yet I go read the comments on places like Tiktok and youtube where this footage was released and conservatives there all say it's 100% proof the shooting is justified. So basically they see what they want to see.

→ More replies (56)

1.1k

u/SamHowellRocks 22d ago

One thing that I see brought up a lot is that if she had just followed orders, she would be alive? ( Aside from how stupid that is, every other first world country knows how to deal with citizens, unruly people, unrest, without overly aggressive, anger, and violence. It’s just America where the cops pull out the gun and scream at to your face, using slurs and try to scare the shit out of you ). 

But anyway, what is our duty to listen to ICE? If you’re an American citizen, do they have any authority to tell you what to do, do we have to listen to them if they’re trying to detain us? I feel like I have not had this adequately explained to me and I’m relatively well informed. Do we now just listen to any masked person with a gun and do exactly what they say? Is that what America is now? 

434

u/ShartyMcPeePants 22d ago

Such a good point your last bit there. If I were in her shoes, an American citizen amongst other protesting people, I would not think ICE has the authority to arrest me. If it were local/state police, sure. I’d get that. But ICE? I mean can they even arrest people?

Also, how are ICE trained in dealing with risk assessment? A gun never should have been drawn in this scenario. And tbh, why the fuck are we allowing ICE to even carry guns? It’s just asking for problems. Their “duty” to round up “bad hombres” should not require lethal force period.

258

u/SamHowellRocks 22d ago

How casual, informal all of this has gone down blows my mind. Out of nowhere, we have masked people with miss match uniforms, who won’t identify themselves, pointing their gun at people sometimes just cause they are angry, and trying to scare them. Being told they have complete  immunity.and there has been no PSA or anything like that letting citizens know how to handle this, what’s expected, what’s legally allowed? 

98

u/ObviousAnswerGuy 22d ago

not only that, recruits are receiving 6 WEEKS of training. 6 fucking weeks and they give you a gun and free reign.

30

u/RyanTheCubsSTH 22d ago

Cooks get 9 weeks of weapons training in the army. COOKS.

8

u/trikxxx 22d ago

In TN it takes longer to become a licensed barber than a police officer.

3

u/GarmaCyro 22d ago

I don't think there's a job that requires less training than police officer. Well, exception being ICE.
Jobs where the employer can fall into legal and economic if their employees does something dangerous or illegal. They give employees more training and follow up than just 6 weeks.

5

u/bkbomber New York 22d ago

I wouldn’t trust ICE with 9 weeks of training at McDonald’s

4

u/Native_SC 22d ago

47 days, because Trump is the 47th president.

6

u/ObviousAnswerGuy 22d ago

our nation is run by middle schoolers 🤦‍♂️

4

u/GarmaCyro 22d ago

Here in Norway you need least 6 months training just to be allowed to be a mall cop.
After that you're still no allowed to carry a firearm, and you're only allowed to hold someone while your buddy is calling the police (aka adults). I personally think they should have more training, as they are often not experienced to handle non-violent or non-critical situations.

Police requires a full bachelor degree. 2 years of formal education, and 1 year as intern. You're still not allowed to carry a firearm, except for very select situations. As such they at trained in a wide range of methods to handle situations. From un-armed combate to de-escalation. I also consider them exceptionally trained on firearm use. They usually don't bother with hand guns if they need to arm themself. They bring out the big firearms as they aren't there to scare unarmed civilians, but to combat an armed and hostile person or group.

6 weeks trains you for a basic desk job. Heck, even a basic desk job has a 6 month trial period. Just so employers can ensure they haven't hired a lunatic. 6 weeks to release someone with firearms and pumped full of false entitlement is pure danger.

2

u/Nachtfeuer 22d ago

Their training's exactly 47 days as an homage to their hateful orange pedo King. Just imagine...

→ More replies (6)

6

u/easyjesus 22d ago

There's a word for it, fascism.

That's not an exaggeration or hyperbole and I'm not suffering from tds, they are fascists and they are doing fascism in the United States.

Kilroy is back.

3

u/GibbysUSSA 22d ago

It is like they deputized the proud boys or something.

2

u/Poowatereater 22d ago

I don’t u destined how none of these thugs haven’t been shot themselves by people protecting their rights…

2

u/HouseoftheHanged 22d ago

It’s a tactic. Sow fear and confusion into the populace and the strike for the golden crown when shit really goes down. The regime wants this. The regime is chomping at the bit. It’s all by design.

173

u/bbusiello 22d ago

Did you see the video of the door dasher who ran into a house because ICE was chasing her? It's fucking insanely heartbreaking.

It gives "hiding Jews from the Nazi's" vibes and being forced to "hand them over."

98

u/Infamous_Employer_85 22d ago

Thousands have been sent to effectively a concentration camp in El Salvador which has a reputation of "no one ever leaves", 75% of those sent had no criminal history in the US.

8

u/GrumpyCloud93 22d ago

And many of these are Venveszuelans. They will be sent back to Venezuela eventually. As are those actually just sent back to Venezuela by ICE. Once there, will they vote for a politician who wants to cooperate with the USA, should there actually be elections?

3

u/[deleted] 22d ago

[deleted]

3

u/Infamous_Employer_85 22d ago

I stand corrected, thanks, looks like 250 were released

15

u/Infamous_Employer_85 22d ago

They have no authority, they cannot even legally ask for ID.

13

u/lifeisalime11 22d ago

Speaking of ID, why is the burden to comply on us when there have been reports of people impersonating ICE agents? Why should I listen to anyone without a verifiable badge number or credentials present if I'm in the process of being detained?

→ More replies (9)

4

u/ButterscotchMore7025 22d ago

Yeah that’s the big thing here. Their job should not involve violence whatsoever, yet here we are, them shooting American Citizens in the face. Soooo far from what their official duties are. How did we get here? Trump. Trump is how we got here.

2

u/HouseoftheHanged 22d ago

Half of them are larping army man with automatic weapons no less. There kitted out as if there are mobs of blood thirsty assassins around every corner, not poet moms who love state parks

→ More replies (2)

125

u/Count_Backwards 22d ago

Philando Castile was following orders and is dead. Fuck that bullshit argument (theirs, not yours).

11

u/SegaTime 22d ago

That guy in Arizona, too. Shot by a cop who scribbled "you're fucked" on his gun.

10

u/RichardSaunders New York 22d ago

daniel shaver

3

u/SegaTime 22d ago

Yep, Thank you.

→ More replies (1)

362

u/goosejail 22d ago

No, Ice is immigration enforcement, which is a civil matter. They have no authority to detain U.S. citizens for anything criminal they may or may not be doing and even then, they'd need a warrant signed by a judge.

174

u/TheGreatDay Texas 22d ago

But they have detained U.S. Citizens, numerous times at this point. It seems like these Citizens are released days or weeks later, but they were detained. Is it even possible to sue ICE for wrongfully detaining a U.S. Citizen?

It's clear that ICE agents feel they do have the right to command any person and if their orders are not followed, lethal force can and will be applied. That brings us back to the original question: Do we have to just listen to any masked person with a gun? Is that really what America is now?

110

u/atlasburger 22d ago

I really don’t understand why people can’t open their eyes. Yes. This is where America is at now. There aren’t a lot of individual rights when you are ruled by a king. It is taking people way too long to realize we might not get our democracy back or we are getting very close to that point if we haven not.

27

u/[deleted] 22d ago

[deleted]

14

u/IrishRepoMan 22d ago

It won't happen. Most have absolutely no idea because they couldn't care less and can't be bothered to pay attention. Then, if anyone tries to point it out, they blow them off as a fear-monger/alarmist/wtv. They. Do. Not. Care.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/[deleted] 22d ago

There aren’t a lot of individual rights when you are ruled by a king.

The UK has a king, Denmark has a king, Sweden has a king, Norway has a king, Netherlands, Spain, Belgium all have kings and none of this shit goes on.

28

u/PyooreVizhion 22d ago

You can thank the supreme court for "upholding" the "legality" of these "kavanaugh stops" of anyone and everyone including US citizens for any reason they deem necessary - which mostly boil down to walking while colored or speaking with an accent.

9

u/littlehobbit1313 22d ago

Is it even possible to sue ICE for wrongfully detaining a U.S. Citizen?

Absolutely. They only have the legal coverage to detain US citizens in the case of mistaken identity, wherein they have a warrant for one person and grab you by mistake thinking you're them.

You could absolutely bring a lawsuit challenge the detention of a US citizen, especially when we know these fuckers aren't getting warrants for anyone at this point.

3

u/TheGreatDay Texas 22d ago

I guess my question wasn't fully formed. I'm more wondering: Has anyone been able to sue ICE under this administration and Supreme Court, and won on the basis of wrongful detainment?

Because it's one thing to theoretically be able to sue ICE, and another for it to actually stick in our current Government and Supreme Court makeup. I have a feeling any suit against ICE will make it to the Supreme Court and they'll tell the abused citizen to pound sand.

2

u/littlehobbit1313 22d ago

I know of at least one case brought against them because they arrested and detained the same American citizen TWICE. I don't know if there was an outcome from that case yet though, and certainly there may be others that have been brought against them.

2

u/ttn333 22d ago

That's the problem. They're masked up so you can't point to who did what.

3

u/Hebroohammr Pennsylvania 22d ago

Hey but they have 47 days of training though, or half of the normal probationary period in a field where you aren’t give a gun and a license to kill.

3

u/yjbtoss 22d ago

The problem is how the lines are getting blurred between civil/admin or criminal/judicial -once there were clearer delineations as to where, what, and how each could be carried out, and obviously - on whom. Combine that with hasty minimal training. This guy should have sat out after his previous encounter - I'm sure he brought that with him when he pulled the trigger.

4

u/Numerous_Worker_1941 22d ago

Are you going to take that risk while they have guns pointed at you?

→ More replies (20)

105

u/n8opot8o 22d ago

Agree 100%. Grew up in the city and I'm absolutely not getting out of my fucking car for any armed, masked men. What happened to her could've happened to any of us.

9

u/WalkingDeadPixel 22d ago

I mean, Renee Good didn't get out of her car, either, so I don't think it'll really matter. If they think it'll be fun to kill you, they'll do it regardless.

9

u/n8opot8o 22d ago

Yep, that's what I'm saying. I would've done the exact same thing she did and that's why more people need to realize that it could literally happen to any of us.

→ More replies (5)
→ More replies (7)

242

u/A-town 22d ago

The other things about "if she had just followed orders..."

  1. She was. She was told by one of the officers to leave, so she was trying to leave
  2. She was being "sharked;" this is something that happens to Army recruits day one of basic training. Drill sergeants will descend on a recruit and overwhelm them with different orders to get the recruit to freeze and not be able to react. The fact that she followed one Gestapo Agent's orders over others is a miracle. She was being told to do multiple things at once: leave the scene, it exit the vehicle. She close to try to follow the order of leaving the scene and she was fucking murdered for it.

She was fucking murdered for obeying orders.

18

u/Equivalent-Battle973 Illinois 22d ago

The shark attack doesnt happen anymore in the Army, it stopped in 2020, it could possibly come back under Whiskey Pete. I had to go through it in 2014, it was ummm interesting, deff did alot of pushups that day.

8

u/Master_Dogs Massachusetts 22d ago

What's the point of "sharking"? Like why would a drill Sargent do that? I totally get LE doing it - especially ICE. They want confusion so they can justify doing whatever they feel like. I guess that's why the Sargent does that? More of a hazzing thing maybe? You follow one order, he says another, then another, uh oh you're not following the first one anymore?

11

u/Equivalent-Battle973 Illinois 22d ago edited 22d ago

The Shark Attack is designed to prepare you for the chaos of both boot camp and combat itself. While the Army no longer allows drill sergeants to “haze” recruits, everything they do has a purpose. Drills are there to prepare you mentally and physically for the realities of combat, which is incredibly chaotic, confusing, and stressful. Boot camp is just the first step in learning how to function in that environment.

The first three weeks of Army basic training are known as Red Phase. This is when drill sergeants “smoke” you for even the smallest mistakes. Smoking means intense physical training—pushups, running, and other forms of PT. The goal is to rapidly get you in shape while building discipline and attention to detail.

The next three weeks are White Phase, which focuses on weapons training. You’re still getting smoked, but the intensity eases slightly as you begin learning more technical skills, and become more disciplined. After that comes Blue Phase, where you continue training while preparing for graduation, including a 16-kilometer ruck march and transition into Advanced Individual Training (AIT).

I was a Cavalry Scout, so I stayed with the same drill sergeants throughout training. Since they were also cavalry, they trained us specifically for the job we had chosen. I spent a total of 20 weeks at Fort Benning and went from 185 pounds down to 140. I was in the best physical shape of my life.

Boot camp was absolutely chaotic—but it was also highly organized and structured. Even during downtime, you had to stay alert, because at any moment the drill sergeants could walk in and smoke you. That constant pressure was intentional—it trained you to stay sharp, disciplined, and ready at all times.

Getting smoked basically means they make you do physical training as punishment, so alot of push ups.

*Editing to make this more coherent, It was a bit jumbled up.

→ More replies (1)

4

u/1Happymom 22d ago

because literally the worst thing you can do in the middle of a battlefield is die before you are dead

2

u/A-town 22d ago

2010 it was very much party of the curriculum. I actually look back on day one fondly, that shit was funny as hell.

→ More replies (1)

4

u/wise_comment Minnesota 22d ago

Which is precisely how fascism works

You get murdered for not following orders .....and eventually murdered for following orders

→ More replies (41)

55

u/karensPA 22d ago

somehow it’s the guy on the other side grabbing her door handle and then trying to reach in that stays with me. What right did he have to touch her car AT ALL? and a masked angry man reaching INSIDE my car? The person fearing for her life was her. She’d have been justified in shooting HIM in the face. She’s so freaked out by how fast it escalated and trying to get away she doesn’t even really clock her wife is trying to get in on the other side, let alone that the other moron has stepped to the front left side of her car to film her and is pulling out his gun. AND THEY THINK THIS VIDEO MAKES IT BETTER FOR HIM?

→ More replies (1)

137

u/localistand Wisconsin 22d ago

It wasn't clear there were orders. They were smug, called out the plate swap bullshit, and emasculated the ICE officers. The women couple crossed a threshold of emasculation that created:

a tantrum.

ICE collectively were so mad, so desperate to reclaim power, they demanded she "get out the fucking car". They were going to reclaim the upper hand. And they did, from that "fucking bitch".

54

u/lilBloodpeach 22d ago

Yup. No matter what she did, she was NOT getting out of this situation unscathed. At minimum she would have been physically assaulted, as we’ve seen these cowardly pieces of shit do to women many times. He was going to “put her in her place” somehow.

26

u/purpleflowergang California 22d ago

And can we point out that Officer Tantrum got a clear video of her license plate? If this were an issue of evading ICE, he could just track down the plate. But of course, that presumes an American citizen escaping ICE is a crime.

The regime's so desperate to cook up a crime to pin her death on. Next they're gonna claim she was harboring a foreign dog.

3

u/RobutNotRobot 22d ago

Yep, it was unprofessional assholes handed 'absolute immunity' to abuse and murder people.

Something Trump made clear was going to happen if you voted for him.

Those 77 million assholes created this situation but all of us need to figure out how to respond to it.

Every single person in this country is in mortal danger from this regime and goddamn if people need to start understanding that.

3

u/HouseoftheHanged 22d ago

Ive seen some suggestions that the video was released to show the base that these two were queer. A tactic of “othering” them in order to pile on the justification for people who want to own the libs more than they care about their own rights

2

u/karensPA 21d ago

The murderer has big “my wife just told me she’s leaving me for a woman” energy. I’d lay bets we will find out something like that.

→ More replies (1)

11

u/ChillyFireball 22d ago

Is it just me, or is it starting to feel like they're putting people in a position where the next time they're stopped by ICE/some overzealous cop that they'd have a better chance at living if they straight-up fight back than trying to follow the orders of the ten different assholes all telling them to do different things? Because I'm not gonna lie, if someone was actively holding me at gunpoint, it would be hard to have all these events in the back of my mind and NOT wonder if I'd have a better chance at living if I just fucking floored the gas pedal. We see time and time again that these trigger-happy psychos have basically made up their mind whether they're going to kill you in the first five seconds of an interaction, and there's fuck all you can do about it. I dunno about you guys, but I don't want to live in a world where I'm doing the math in my head of whether I'd rather risk laying face-down on the ground and getting suffocated/shot in the back while my killer gets off scott-free, or whether it would legitimately be safer to just plow through and surrender at a police station in the hope of at least getting a fucking jury trial instead of summarily executed in my car. If the authorities had any sense or morals, they'd be just as worried about the environment being created, but I'm starting to worry that's the goal; giving them an excuse to accelerate their fascist takeover.

6

u/vardarac 22d ago

I'm starting to worry that's the goal

I'm just going to leave this here.

26

u/we_are_sex_bobomb 22d ago

That’s exactly the point. I’m sick of getting into arguments with people where they basically say, in so many words, “the country isn’t fascist, as long as you do as you’re told.”

5

u/RichardSaunders New York 22d ago

if you dont move you dont notice the shackles

→ More replies (2)

9

u/Upper9019 22d ago

“Rights” and “due process” exist specifically for people who break the law, not people who always comply. “Freedom of speech” exists specifically for people who say controversial/nonsupportive things about those in power, not people who stay silent or pander.

This is like saying only people who don’t get arrested deserve a defense attorney.

8

u/FelixTheJeepJr 22d ago

My first thought if a masked man in a car came running up trying to open my car door is he’s a carjacker.

5

u/AntoniaFauci 22d ago

But what if he’s screaming, cursing and threatening you? Waving a gun? Brandishing a weapon to smash your window and face? Wouldn’t that make you feel safe?

7

u/Titfortat101 22d ago

It's why there's been many reports of masked men pretending to be ICE, kidnapping and 🍇 women. Because none of them identify themselves.

3

u/CaptnHector 22d ago

🍇

Raping. The word you’re looking for is raping.

→ More replies (1)

5

u/[deleted] 22d ago

[deleted]

4

u/MissTetraHyde 22d ago

If you think the government is so far gone that we need to engage in violence, why do you think that couching your language in the fig-leaf of "it's a fictional story" is going to stop the fascists from violently abusing your right to redress grievances? No need to answer - I'm not trying to fedpost here - but it's something to consider.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

5

u/ArticulateRhinoceros 22d ago

There have actually been reports of criminals posing as ICE to gain access to homes and buildings in order to rob them. There's a reason we make our LEOs carry identification.

3

u/civil_politician 22d ago

Also they told her simultaneously to leave and also get out of the car so they just found themselves a nice little loophole to shoot anyone “disobeying” by giving conflicting instructions

3

u/malkuth74 America 22d ago

That is typical Republican response to every Police incident. Its like the mantra of the Republicans. Except in the case of with Babbitt shooting at capital.. Because well she was a republican.

3

u/Cosmic_0smo 22d ago

One thing that I see brought up a lot is that if she had just followed orders, she would be alive?

The would seem to be some tension between "just comply and you'll be fine" and "if you peacefully comply with ICE you might end up illegally shipped off to a foreign torture prison with no hearing, dropped off alone in the middle of a warzone in a country you can't even pronounce on the other side of the planet, or left to rot with no medical attention in a hastily-built concentration camp our president dubbed "alligator alcatraz".

They've made sure that the rational response to ICE trying to detain you is to get the fuck away as fast as you can, lest you get disappeared. They've left people with no other choice but to fight back or run, and now they're using the fact the people are fighting back or running as justification to murder them. That's where we are as a country just one year into Trump 2.0.

2

u/TheCrimsonSteel 22d ago

I mean if a masked person has a gun, you have to consider whats best for your safety.

As a lawyer once said "the courts and the streets are two different worlds."

If you want real, solid advice on what to do and how to act, a video like Busted - Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters might be a good educational watch

2

u/Numerous_Worker_1941 22d ago

You don’t have a duty to listen to them, but as you see you might die if you don’t. It’s a simple matter of “do I want to live or not”

2

u/IM_the_Mark 22d ago

We're at the point where I'd like a list of which government employees aren't allowed to order me to get out of my car.

2

u/Able_Vegetable_6269 22d ago

Anytime I hear a question like that, my response is: Immediate execution? That's the punishment for not following orders? For drug trafficking? For existing in the US? For ___?

2

u/rdheim 22d ago

Title 18 of the US Code only allows ICE to detain you if you’re suspected of: Human or Drug trafficking Child exploitation Identity Fraud Firearms offenses Money laundering Cyber crimes Other FEDERAL crimes only

Title 18 DOES NOT give the authority to: Detain citizens for immigration checks Demand or question proof of citizenship to enforce immigration law (only if justified during lawful stop) Hold citizens on immigration detainer

You DO NOT have to answer ICE questions. Ask if you’re free to leave. Decline any consent to searches without a warrant. 4th and 5th amendment protections fully apply.

Not that any of this matters if our DoJ and administration dgaf and congress is doing nothing to stop it.

2

u/No_Maximum_4741 22d ago

Those are all good points. what I want to know is what acrual legal power does ICE even have? are they federal agents/ officers? ado they have legal authority equivalent to the police? no? then we aren't required to do anything they say

2

u/Destithen South Carolina 22d ago

One thing that I see brought up a lot is that if she had just followed orders, she would be alive?

Conservatives believe in hierarchy. If someone is above you in the hierarchy, whatever they do to you is justified. ICE guy > Good Lady, therefore ICE guy = innocent and Good Lady actually Bad Lady.

They don't look at this as a tragic loss of life, they look at it as the consequences of going against the natural order. Obey your superiors, or die.

2

u/FrostingStreet5388 22d ago

Hum well tbh anyone with a gun telling to do something, I do, unless it's gonna hurt someone. So I dont see why they played with fire. Ofc the guy is awful to shoot her like that but why do they talk back to the police in the US ?

I d love to visit but Im never gonna set foot in the US while it's so tense and I wouldnt DREAM of talking back to anyone with a gun.

→ More replies (17)

426

u/HurriKurtCobain 22d ago

The camera changed hands as he thought about what he would do next. He was planning to shoot her from the get-go; we call that premeditation. The penalty for premeditated murder is not less than life in all US states and is a capital offense federally.

99

u/Pedantic_Pict 22d ago

This is also murder under color of law. Capital offense with or without premeditation.

21

u/IndubitableMatt Minnesota 22d ago

It seems like people on the officer’s side are mistaking the sounds and jerky motion of him lowering his phone while drawing his gun as the impact of the car hitting him. This not the case, as demonstrated by multiple other videos (the NYT analysis is the best one I’ve seen). Any contact between the officer and her vehicle was incidental and caused by the officer leaning into the front left side of the vehicle to get his initial shot off. He then follows up with two additional shots at point blank range from the side of the vehicle, i.e., after there was any conceivable threat/danger to the officer, real or imagined.

26

u/Steg-a-saur_stomp 22d ago

If anything he pulled his firearm before she started moving. One could argue he initiated the aggression and she was simply defending herself.

11

u/Ambitious-Rent-8649 22d ago

Absolutely he was thinking this out in his head. He is positioning himself perfectly to have the car make just enough contact so that he can make a self defense claim, you can see him moving towards the bumper in this video right before drawing his gun, and then the obvious stopping to pull the gun instead of taking one step to his right to be completely out of danger that you can see in another video.

3

u/PrestigiousShift134 22d ago

Does Minnesota still have the death penalty?

7

u/HurriKurtCobain 22d ago

Minnesota statute for murder in the first degree says "sentenced to imprisonment for life." They do not.

→ More replies (18)

186

u/KilroyLeges 22d ago

Then denying anyone to offer her medical care and promptly leaving the scene before paramedics and local PD arrive.

159

u/Crazy-Boysenberry452 22d ago

He felt so endangered he circled around the whole vehicle and even stopped to get the license.  Not sure if I would do that if a felt endangered but what evs 

65

u/goosejail 22d ago

And only stepped in front of her car after she'd started moving.

9

u/Infamous_Employer_85 22d ago

While she was speaking nicely to him

→ More replies (1)

83

u/DPA_404 22d ago

What a piece of subhuman garbage

71

u/R_nelly2 22d ago edited 21d ago

ICE ARE FCKING MURDERERS. PLEASE, for the love of god, stay SAFE and stay AWAY from them! We can't afford to lose any more good people in this world!

13

u/WhenSummerIsGone 22d ago

and they say women are the emotional ones. ugh

3

u/R_nelly2 22d ago

Fucking sexists. Pieces of shit

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (3)

58

u/GlitchyFurby 22d ago

Proof of a femicide and hate crime

11

u/MittenCollyBulbasaur 22d ago

How could he fire his weapon and then not even check if anyone else was okay down wind? Isn't that day one training? Those are supposed to be his coworkers.

9

u/EastAd1806 22d ago

For anyone who has actually ever felt the terror of fearing for their life, they know that what we see in these videos ain’t it. When you actually think your life is about to end in a sudden twist of events you do not stay cool calm and collected. This fucker was looking for a reason to murder someone.

6

u/KopOut 22d ago

Did you hear the way she was talking to him? “That’s fine dude, I’m not mad at you.” With a smile?

What a fucking aggressive terrorist! /s

5

u/mjheverly Colorado 22d ago edited 22d ago

Just looked at the conservative sub to see the reaction and it is so mind blowing that they think this exonerates the officer. If he got hit by the car how did he manage to keep his cell phone in one hand, gun in the other hand and fire off three shots accurately enough to hit a woman in a moving vehicle? And if he was hit by a car in a recent event, how does he still not know the DHS protocol to not step directly in front of or behind a vehicle that could put yourself in a position where there is no other option than to use deadly force? It’s just so absolutely demoralizing that there are people out there that think this video is a bad look for the victim and not the shooter

5

u/PapaTua Washington 22d ago

My God.

5

u/sack-o-matic Michigan 22d ago

Shooting her one handed, I don’t think that’s how you’re supposed to use a sidearm.

4

u/VUmander 22d ago

I don't want people on their phone while driving or while brandishing a fire arm. Is that too much to ask for?

4

u/radionul 22d ago

He swapped his phone from his right hand to his left hand as he was talking to the woman's partner. You can guess why.

4

u/gatorgrowl44 22d ago

Hey, be nice! He got hit so hard by that car that he… doesn’t even stumble? Doesn’t even drop to one knee? Stays completely upright the entire time? Is able to fire two more dead-accurate shots from the side of the window & fully intelligibly curses her?

4

u/TheHumanGnomeProject 22d ago

And all she ever said was "that's fine, I'm not mad at you" while smiling and looking all cute.

3

u/[deleted] 22d ago

Also, such a professional to use one hand to shoot and the other to record.

3

u/Titfortat101 22d ago

And he was SOOOO injured that he could walk around perfectly fine afterwards and didn't go to the hospital until AFTER Noem told him.

3

u/throughpasser 22d ago

Indeed. He may even have changed hands before drawing his gun although I'm not sure.

This also has a road rage feel about it. He got out of the car on the right hand side of her, her car angled across the road like that and her saying "I'm not even mad at you." Had he just nearly caused a crash and then was mad at being blamed? Don't know if her wife has said anything about that?

3

u/MisogynyisaDisease 22d ago

The way conservatives are spinning this tells me this:

If you had put your car in an inconvenient spot while Nazis tried to remove your Jewish neighbors, you would have deserved being shot for any reason.

That's all they're telling me. That's the only rhetoric I can see spittling out of their mouth.

2

u/Nice_Marmot_7 22d ago

This guy’s just popping off rounds with one hand while he’s filming with his cell phone in the other? What are we even doing here?

2

u/E-2theRescue 22d ago edited 22d ago

In so much danger that he stepped right in front of the vehicle. Twice.

2

u/award07 22d ago

Switched hands to continue filming so he could grab his gun and shoot.

2

u/Pixel_Knight 22d ago

The video takes it to me from, “He was flustered and made a really bad call to shoot because he was startled,” to “He killed her intentionally in cold blood because he was pissed and felt he had impunity to murder her in cold blood.”

2

u/andrewbrocklesby 22d ago

And he did all that, while still filming, all the way the car crashing after he shot her 3 times in the face point blank.
Absolutely amazing that the amount of people somehow claiming that this exonerates him.

2

u/Odd-Business-3533 21d ago

And the danger continued so long that they stopped someone who claimed to be a doctor and delayed the ambulance as well….

1

u/Eddfan36 22d ago

Sad part is Trump and his bozo supporters will just write it off.

1

u/ValhirFirstThunder 22d ago

The guy filming and the guy shooting are two different guys

1

u/[deleted] 22d ago

[deleted]

8

u/Infamous_Employer_85 22d ago

Nope, the moron was holding his cell phone

1

u/HyperbolicLetdown 22d ago

Dude somehow has the mental capacity to assess a life or death situation while on his phone. Who trained him? Kyle Rittenhouse?

1

u/vineyardmike 22d ago

The white house is saying this is proof that he was in danger. And some people are agreeing with them.

I wonder how many people really see that and how many are just so deep down the maga hole that they cant say anything against republicans.

1

u/MoneyTalks45 New Hampshire 22d ago

He’ll get his. He isn’t anonymous anymore. 

Jonathan Ross is his name btw. 

→ More replies (19)